to smoke out snakes from the hole

[NOSPAM]

Hi,

I came across the following sentence from a forum:

"The boys decided to smoke out the snakes _from the hole_."

Is this sentence correct?

At first glance, it seems ok to me, but when I zero in on "from the
hole", my brain just can't make sense out of it. I guess it's because
I'm used to this structure -- "The gulf ball is 10 feet from the hole".

If it is correct, does "from the hole" mean the boys placed the "smoking
pile" at/near the entrance of the hole (as in " '0 foot' from the
hole"), or the snakes' presence was inside the hole and would came out
of it (as in "They are from Boston")?

[the Omrud]

Post by NOSPAM
Hi,
"The boys decided to smoke out the snakes _from the hole_."
Is this sentence correct?
At first glance, it seems ok to me, but when I zero in on "from the
hole", my brain just can't make sense out of it. I guess it's because
I'm used to this structure -- "The gulf ball is 10 feet from the hole".
If it is correct, does "from the hole" mean the boys placed the "smoking
pile" at/near the entrance of the hole (as in " '0 foot' from the
hole"), or the snakes' presence was inside the hole and would came out
of it (as in "They are from Boston")?

You're being confused by the placement of "the snakes". The active
part of the sentence is "smoke out ... from the hole". To "smoke
out" is to use smoke to drive something out. So the boys used smoke
to drive the snakes "out from the hole".

[tinwhistler]

Post by the Omrud
You're being confused by the placement of "the snakes". The active
part of the sentence is "smoke out ... from the hole". To "smoke
out" is to use smoke to drive something out. So the boys used smoke
to drive the snakes "out from the hole".

In the OED2 entry for "sweal, v." there is mention of a cognate,
"ON. svæla to smoke out" (our word "sweal" now meaning to
burn). That Old Norse word condenses a current idiom, "to smoke
out," as in this usage:
1937 Koestler Spanish Testament v. 104 Militiamen were frequently
obliged to smoke out the machine-gun nests set up in the monasteries.

David's suggestion makes sense grammatically, but sounds
un-idiomatic; I'd go with "The boys smoked out the snakes in the
hole." (I guess they're now on an airplane, if the current movie has
it right.)

[tinwhistler]

Post by tinwhistler
I'd go with "The boys smoked out the snakes in the
hole."

To follow the original text more closely: "The boys decided to smoke
out the snakes in the hole." (Just change "from" to "in.")

[Robert Bannister]

Post by tinwhistler

Post by the Omrud
You're being confused by the placement of "the snakes". The active
part of the sentence is "smoke out ... from the hole". To "smoke
out" is to use smoke to drive something out. So the boys used smoke
to drive the snakes "out from the hole".

In the OED2 entry for "sweal, v." there is mention of a cognate,
"ON. svæla to smoke out" (our word "sweal" now meaning to
burn). That Old Norse word condenses a current idiom, "to smoke
1937 Koestler Spanish Testament v. 104 Militiamen were frequently
obliged to smoke out the machine-gun nests set up in the monasteries.
David's suggestion makes sense grammatically, but sounds
un-idiomatic; I'd go with "The boys smoked out the snakes in the
hole." (I guess they're now on an airplane, if the current movie has
it right.)

Myself, I'd say either "The boys smoked the snakes out." or "The boys
smoked the snakes out of the hole".

[NOSPAM]

David:
ah.. So it's "out from the hole". Thanks for the explanation!

tinwhistler:
"I guess they're now on an airplane" -- This is so funny!
And thank you for your suggestions!

Jerry and Robert:
Thank you for the explanations and suggestion!



-- DJ

[Linz]

Post by tinwhistler

Post by the Omrud
You're being confused by the placement of "the snakes". The active
part of the sentence is "smoke out ... from the hole". To "smoke
out" is to use smoke to drive something out. So the boys used smoke
to drive the snakes "out from the hole".

In the OED2 entry for "sweal, v." there is mention of a cognate,
"ON. svæla to smoke out" (our word "sweal" now meaning to
burn). That Old Norse word condenses a current idiom, "to smoke
1937 Koestler Spanish Testament v. 104 Militiamen were frequently
obliged to smoke out the machine-gun nests set up in the monasteries.
David's suggestion makes sense grammatically, but sounds
un-idiomatic; I'd go with "The boys smoked out the snakes in the
hole." (I guess they're now on an airplane, if the current movie has
it right.)

Your version makes it look as though the snakes stay in the hole, though.
The whole idea is to use smoke to get the snakes out of the hole. If the
snakes were in a pocket and you were shaking them, would you shake out the
snakes in the pocket?

[tinwhistler]

Post by Linz
If the
snakes were in a pocket and you were shaking them, would you shake out the
snakes in the pocket?

The way you put it, my action is impliedly effective for getting them
out. Why would I shake a pocket of snakes? (I'd rather open a can of
worms.) I'd toss a pocket of snakes somewhere, preferably Shrub's
ranch.

[Robert Bannister]

Post by Linz

Post by tinwhistler

Post by the Omrud
You're being confused by the placement of "the snakes". The active
part of the sentence is "smoke out ... from the hole". To "smoke
out" is to use smoke to drive something out. So the boys used smoke
to drive the snakes "out from the hole".

In the OED2 entry for "sweal, v." there is mention of a cognate,
"ON. svæla to smoke out" (our word "sweal" now meaning to
burn). That Old Norse word condenses a current idiom, "to smoke
1937 Koestler Spanish Testament v. 104 Militiamen were frequently
obliged to smoke out the machine-gun nests set up in the monasteries.
David's suggestion makes sense grammatically, but sounds
un-idiomatic; I'd go with "The boys smoked out the snakes in the
hole." (I guess they're now on an airplane, if the current movie has
it right.)

Your version makes it look as though the snakes stay in the hole, though.
The whole idea is to use smoke to get the snakes out of the hole. If the
snakes were in a pocket and you were shaking them, would you shake out the
snakes in the pocket?

It sounded sort of French to me, like the way they say "Il a pris sa
clef dans sa poche", where I expect "de".

[j***@yahoo.com]

Post by NOSPAM
Hi,
"The boys decided to smoke out the snakes _from the hole_."
Is this sentence correct?
At first glance, it seems ok to me, but when I zero in on "from the
hole", my brain just can't make sense out of it. I guess it's because
I'm used to this structure -- "The gulf ball is 10 feet from the hole".
If it is correct, does "from the hole" mean the boys placed the "smoking
pile" at/near the entrance of the hole (as in " '0 foot' from the
hole"), or the snakes' presence was inside the hole and would came out
of it (as in "They are from Boston")?

I think it means "The boys decided to smoke the snakes out of the
hole." I can imagine saying the sentence you quoted, but if I were
thinking about what I was doing I'd say or write it the way I just did.