Since when does English pluralise adjectives?

Post by Paul Carmichael
Seen on my wife's iPhone "Recents" for recent calls/conversations.
Is this an AmE thing?
Normally, when an adjective is used as a substantive in English, it's
singular "The rich, poor, French" etc.

"Substantive" is an adjective you are using as a noun?

Shift work puts me on "earlies" or "lates" and everyone
(except my spell-checker) knows what I mean by that.

Paul Carmichael

2024-09-25 14:57:49 UTC

"Substantive" is an adjective you are using as a noun?

Do you not know what the word means?

Post by LionelEdwards
Shift work puts me on "earlies" or "lates" and everyone (except my
spell-checker) knows what I mean by that.

Some special case colloquialisms.

I have never before heard of "recents" or anything like it.

--
Paul.

https://paulc.es

LionelEdwards

2024-09-25 18:32:10 UTC

"Substantive" is an adjective you are using as a noun?

Do you not know what the word means?

If you think it means "noun" then you are one of the
oldies.

We should eat up our greens, cheer on the reds, win
a few golds, pocket our winnings :)

Paul Carmichael

2024-09-26 08:24:53 UTC

Post by LionelEdwards
"Substantive" is an adjective you are using as a noun?

Do you not know what the word means?

If you think it means "noun" then you are one of the oldies.

" ".

--
Paul.

https://paulc.es

charles

2024-09-25 15:45:02 UTC

"Substantive" is an adjective you are using as a noun?
Shift work puts me on "earlies" or "lates"

or even "nights"!

Post by LionelEdwards
and everyone (except my spell-checker) knows what I mean by that.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té²
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

Ross Clark

2024-09-26 05:37:52 UTC

But "The Royals".

What English does is very readily convert things to other parts of
speech. So I'd say it's not really pluralising an adjective -- you make
it a noun first. Not a new phenomenon.

"sharps" (hospital jargon?) things with sharp points or edges
"creatives" (artsy people) -- this one is fairly new to me
and of course, getting close to your original example:

"news" (14th century, probably based on French nouvelles)

Paul Carmichael

2024-09-26 08:35:36 UTC

Post by Ross Clark
What English does is very readily convert things to other parts of
speech. So I'd say it's not really pluralising an adjective -- you make
it a noun first. Not a new phenomenon.

Yes, but some adjectives have had substantive versions since time began.
I wouldn't even notice had it been one of those. But "recents"? Yuk!

Post by Ross Clark
"sharps" (hospital jargon?) things with sharp points or edges
"creatives" (artsy people)

I would have reacted the same way to either of those. The latter would be
"arty types" in my vocab. Oh, and the former "pointy things" :-)

BTW, my use of the word substantive, is probably from living in Spain for
so long. We tend to say "sustantivo" because "nombre" really only means
name. "Pronombre" is in everyday use though.

And of course, I wouldn't dream of using "noun" as an adjective :-)

--
Paul.

https://paulc.es

Ross Clark

2024-09-26 10:43:30 UTC

Post by Ross Clark
What English does is very readily convert things to other parts of
speech. So I'd say it's not really pluralising an adjective -- you make
it a noun first. Not a new phenomenon.

Yes, but some adjectives have had substantive versions since time began.
I wouldn't even notice had it been one of those. But "recents"? Yuk!

Post by Ross Clark
"sharps" (hospital jargon?) things with sharp points or edges
"creatives" (artsy people)

I would have reacted the same way to either of those. The latter would be
"arty types" in my vocab. Oh, and the former "pointy things" :-)
BTW, my use of the word substantive, is probably from living in Spain for
so long. We tend to say "sustantivo" because "nombre" really only means
name. "Pronombre" is in everyday use though.
And of course, I wouldn't dream of using "noun" as an adjective :-)

I know "substantive" as an older word for "noun". I guess that makes me
one of the oldies. The other poster appeared to be announcing some new
usage, but doing so in the form of a question; so I don't know what's on
his mind.

Paul Carmichael

2024-09-26 10:48:02 UTC

Post by Ross Clark
I know "substantive" as an older word for "noun". I guess that makes me
one of the oldies. The other poster appeared to be announcing some new
usage, but doing so in the form of a question; so I don't know what's on
his mind.

Went straight over my head.

--
Paul.

https://paulc.es

Ruud Harmsen

2024-09-26 13:15:04 UTC

Post by Ross Clark
What English does is very readily convert things to other parts of
speech. So I'd say it's not really pluralising an adjective -- you make
it a noun first. Not a new phenomenon.

Yes, but some adjectives have had substantive versions since time began.
I wouldn't even notice had it been one of those. But "recents"? Yuk!

Post by Ross Clark
"sharps" (hospital jargon?) things with sharp points or edges
"creatives" (artsy people)

I would have reacted the same way to either of those. The latter would be
"arty types" in my vocab. Oh, and the former "pointy things" :-)
BTW, my use of the word substantive, is probably from living in Spain for
so long. We tend to say "sustantivo" because "nombre" really only means
name. "Pronombre" is in everyday use though.
And of course, I wouldn't dream of using "noun" as an adjective :-)

As in "noun clause".

--
Ruud Harmsen, https://rudhar.com

jerryfriedman

2024-09-26 13:31:48 UTC

Post by Ross Clark
What English does is very readily convert things to other parts of
speech. So I'd say it's not really pluralising an adjective -- you make
it a noun first. Not a new phenomenon.

Yes, but some adjectives have had substantive versions since time began.
I wouldn't even notice had it been one of those. But "recents"? Yuk!

Post by Ross Clark
"sharps" (hospital jargon?) things with sharp points or edges
"creatives" (artsy people)

I would have reacted the same way to either of those. The latter would be
"arty types" in my vocab. Oh, and the former "pointy things" :-)
BTW, my use of the word substantive, is probably from living in Spain for
so long. We tend to say "sustantivo" because "nombre" really only means
name. "Pronombre" is in everyday use though.
And of course, I wouldn't dream of using "noun" as an adjective :-)

To take your "since when" question literally,
etymonline dates "shorts" to 1826 and the noun
"pretty" meaning a pretty thing to 1736. A
lawyer's "brief" is much older but the adjective-
to-noun conversion happened in Latin (as did
that of "substantive".)

I saw another one of these yesterday, from someone
who had worked at the Telephone Reference Desk of
the Brooklyn public library:

"Our callers were as various as New York City itself:
copyeditors, fact checkers, game show aspirants,
journalists, bill collectors, bet settlers, police
detectives, students and teachers, the idly curious,
the lonely and loquacious, the park bench
*crazies*, the nervously apprehensive."

Quoted at

https://languagehat.com/think-like-a-librarian/

--
Jerry Friedman

Ross Clark

2024-09-26 20:47:28 UTC

Post by Ross Clark
What English does is very readily convert things to other parts of
speech. So I'd say it's not really pluralising an adjective -- you make
it a noun first. Not a new phenomenon.

Yes, but some adjectives have had substantive versions since time began.
I wouldn't even notice had it been one of those. But "recents"? Yuk!

Post by Ross Clark
"sharps" (hospital jargon?) things with sharp points or edges
"creatives" (artsy people)

I would have reacted the same way to either of those. The latter would be
"arty types" in my vocab. Oh, and the former "pointy things" :-)
BTW, my use of the word substantive, is probably from living in Spain for
so long. We tend to say "sustantivo" because "nombre" really only means
name. "Pronombre" is in everyday use though.
And of course, I wouldn't dream of using "noun" as an adjective :-)

To take your "since when" question literally,
etymonline dates "shorts" to 1826 and the noun
"pretty" meaning a pretty thing to 1736. A
lawyer's "brief" is much older but the adjective-
to-noun conversion happened in Latin (as did
that of "substantive".)
I saw another one of these yesterday, from someone
who had worked at the Telephone Reference Desk of
copyeditors, fact checkers, game show aspirants,
journalists, bill collectors, bet settlers, police
detectives, students and teachers, the idly curious,
the lonely and loquacious, the park bench
*crazies*, the nervously apprehensive."
Quoted at
https://languagehat.com/think-like-a-librarian/
--
Jerry Friedman

And did I read someone just the other day referring to "socials" =
social media?

LionelEdwards

2024-09-26 21:26:12 UTC

Post by Ross Clark
What English does is very readily convert things to other parts of
speech. So I'd say it's not really pluralising an adjective -- you make
it a noun first. Not a new phenomenon.

Yes, but some adjectives have had substantive versions since time began.
I wouldn't even notice had it been one of those. But "recents"? Yuk!

Post by Ross Clark
"sharps" (hospital jargon?) things with sharp points or edges
"creatives" (artsy people)

I would have reacted the same way to either of those. The latter would be
"arty types" in my vocab. Oh, and the former "pointy things" :-)
BTW, my use of the word substantive, is probably from living in Spain for
so long. We tend to say "sustantivo" because "nombre" really only means
name. "Pronombre" is in everyday use though.
And of course, I wouldn't dream of using "noun" as an adjective :-)

To take your "since when" question literally,
etymonline dates "shorts" to 1826 and the noun
"pretty" meaning a pretty thing to 1736. A
lawyer's "brief" is much older but the adjective-
to-noun conversion happened in Latin (as did
that of "substantive".)
I saw another one of these yesterday, from someone
who had worked at the Telephone Reference Desk of
copyeditors, fact checkers, game show aspirants,
journalists, bill collectors, bet settlers, police
detectives, students and teachers, the idly curious,
the lonely and loquacious, the park bench
*crazies*, the nervously apprehensive."
Quoted at
https://languagehat.com/think-like-a-librarian/
--
Jerry Friedman

And did I read someone just the other day referring to "socials" =
social media?

"Socials" in BrE have always been shorthand
for "social meetings".

jerryfriedman

2024-09-26 22:28:21 UTC

Post by jerryfriedman
I saw another one of these yesterday, from someone
who had worked at the Telephone Reference Desk of
copyeditors, fact checkers, game show aspirants,
journalists, bill collectors, bet settlers, police
detectives, students and teachers, the idly curious,
the lonely and loquacious, the park bench
*crazies*, the nervously apprehensive."
Quoted at
https://languagehat.com/think-like-a-librarian/
--
Jerry Friedman

And did I read someone just the other day referring to "socials" =
social media?

I'll bet you did, and it can also refer to social-
media accounts. "I'm deleting my socials."

Post by LionelEdwards
"Socials" in BrE have always been shorthand
for "social meetings".

1857 in the U.S., according to the OED. Their first
citation from Britain is from 1893, but I don't think
that guarantees that it's the first British example
they know. They do say it was originally North
American.

(There was also a rare and obsolete meaning, "A
companion, an associate.")

--
Jerry Friedman

jerryfriedman

2024-09-26 22:34:20 UTC

Post by Ross Clark
And did I read someone just the other day referring to "socials" =
social media?

I'll bet you did, and it can also refer to social-
media accounts. "I'm deleting my socials."

Post by LionelEdwards
"Socials" in BrE have always been shorthand
for "social meetings".

1857 in the U.S., according to the OED.

..

But they don't know that in American "social" can be
short for "Social Security number".

--
Jerry Friedman

Snidely

2024-09-27 00:00:10 UTC

Post by Ross Clark
What English does is very readily convert things to other parts of
speech. So I'd say it's not really pluralising an adjective -- you make
it a noun first. Not a new phenomenon.

Yes, but some adjectives have had substantive versions since time began.
I wouldn't even notice had it been one of those. But "recents"? Yuk!

Post by Ross Clark
"sharps" (hospital jargon?) things with sharp points or edges
"creatives" (artsy people)

I would have reacted the same way to either of those. The latter would be
"arty types" in my vocab. Oh, and the former "pointy things" :-)
BTW, my use of the word substantive, is probably from living in Spain for
so long. We tend to say "sustantivo" because "nombre" really only means
name. "Pronombre" is in everyday use though.
And of course, I wouldn't dream of using "noun" as an adjective :-)

To take your "since when" question literally,
etymonline dates "shorts" to 1826 and the noun
"pretty" meaning a pretty thing to 1736. A
lawyer's "brief" is much older but the adjective-
to-noun conversion happened in Latin (as did
that of "substantive".)
I saw another one of these yesterday, from someone
who had worked at the Telephone Reference Desk of
copyeditors, fact checkers, game show aspirants,
journalists, bill collectors, bet settlers, police
detectives, students and teachers, the idly curious,
the lonely and loquacious, the park bench
*crazies*, the nervously apprehensive."
Quoted at
https://languagehat.com/think-like-a-librarian/
--
Jerry Friedman

And did I read someone just the other day referring to "socials" =
social media?

"Socials" in BrE have always been shorthand
for "social meetings".

Oh, the traditional AmE usage was for parties or for school dances.

/dps

--
We’ve learned way more than we wanted to know about the early history
of American professional basketball, like that you could have once
watched a game between teams named the Indianapolis Kautskys and the
Akron Firestone Non-Skids. -- fivethirtyeight.com

Peter Moylan

2024-09-27 00:13:00 UTC

Post by Ross Clark
And did I read someone just the other day referring to "socials" =
social media?

"Socials" in BrE have always been shorthand
for "social meetings".

In my younger days we had school socials.

--
Peter Moylan ***@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

jerryfriedman

2024-09-27 14:45:40 UTC

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by Ross Clark
And did I read someone just the other day referring to "socials" =
social media?

"Socials" in BrE have always been shorthand
for "social meetings".

In my younger days we had school socials.

We never did; to me it's strongly associated with older, probably rural,
ways of life.

Same here.

The phrase "box social" popped into my head; I probably heard it in
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Box_social
And there are "strawberry socials", apparently a Thing in Prince Edward
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/prince-edward-island/p-e-i-strawberry-social-1.4794877

I think we had an "ice cream social" or two in college.
The term was tinged with irony, because college.

--
Jerry Friedman used to be able to eat a lot of ice
cream, but not like some of his classmates.

Janet

2024-09-27 15:17:17 UTC

In article

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by Ross Clark
And did I read someone just the other day referring to "socials" =
social media?

"Socials" in BrE have always been shorthand
for "social meetings".

In my younger days we had school socials.

We never did; to me it's strongly associated with older, probably rural,
ways of life.

Same here.

I think we had an "ice cream social" or two in college.
The term was tinged with irony, because college.

We had a Freshers Social, though I can't remember any of
it. AFAIK, freshers still have socials.

Janet.

Snidely

2024-09-26 23:59:27 UTC

Post by Ross Clark
What English does is very readily convert things to other parts of
speech. So I'd say it's not really pluralising an adjective -- you make
it a noun first. Not a new phenomenon.

Yes, but some adjectives have had substantive versions since time began.
I wouldn't even notice had it been one of those. But "recents"? Yuk!

Post by Ross Clark
"sharps" (hospital jargon?) things with sharp points or edges
"creatives" (artsy people)

I would have reacted the same way to either of those. The latter would be
"arty types" in my vocab. Oh, and the former "pointy things" :-)
BTW, my use of the word substantive, is probably from living in Spain for
so long. We tend to say "sustantivo" because "nombre" really only means
name. "Pronombre" is in everyday use though.
And of course, I wouldn't dream of using "noun" as an adjective :-)

To take your "since when" question literally,
etymonline dates "shorts" to 1826 and the noun
"pretty" meaning a pretty thing to 1736. A
lawyer's "brief" is much older but the adjective-
to-noun conversion happened in Latin (as did
that of "substantive".)
I saw another one of these yesterday, from someone
who had worked at the Telephone Reference Desk of
copyeditors, fact checkers, game show aspirants,
journalists, bill collectors, bet settlers, police
detectives, students and teachers, the idly curious,
the lonely and loquacious, the park bench
*crazies*, the nervously apprehensive."
Quoted at
https://languagehat.com/think-like-a-librarian/
-- Jerry Friedman

And did I read someone just the other day referring to "socials" = social
media?

Probably. I hear it on some of my streams where they mention "where
else you can find us".

/dps

--
You could try being nicer and politer

instead, and see how that works out.

-- Katy Jennison

lar3ryca

2024-09-27 04:41:26 UTC

Post by Ross Clark
What English does is very readily convert things to other parts of
speech. So I'd say it's not really pluralising an adjective -- you make
it a noun first. Not a new phenomenon.

Yes, but some adjectives have had substantive versions since time began.
I wouldn't even notice had it been one of those. But "recents"? Yuk!

Post by Ross Clark
"sharps" (hospital jargon?) things with sharp points or edges
"creatives" (artsy people)

I would have reacted the same way to either of those. The latter would be
"arty types" in my vocab. Oh, and the former "pointy things" :-)
BTW, my use of the word substantive, is probably from living in Spain for
so long. We tend to say "sustantivo" because "nombre" really only means
name. "Pronombre" is in everyday use though.
And of course, I wouldn't dream of using "noun" as an adjective :-)

I think many nouns can be adjectived.

--
Autocorrect has become my wurst enema.

Kerr-Mudd, John

2024-09-26 09:42:01 UTC

On Thu, 26 Sep 2024 17:37:52 +1200

But "The Royals".
What English does is very readily convert things to other parts of
speech. So I'd say it's not really pluralising an adjective -- you make
it a noun first. Not a new phenomenon.
"sharps" (hospital jargon?) things with sharp points or edges
"creatives" (artsy people) -- this one is fairly new to me

bloods

Post by Ross Clark
"news" (14th century, probably based on French nouvelles)

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

Snidely

2024-09-26 23:57:16 UTC

Just this Wednesday, Paul Carmichael explained that ...

Post by Paul Carmichael
Seen on my wife's iPhone "Recents" for recent calls/conversations.
Is this an AmE thing?

Insufficient evidence to answer.

Post by Paul Carmichael
Normally, when an adjective is used as a substantive in English, it's
singular "The rich, poor, French" etc.

"The rich" is a collective, the implied noun is "people". "The recent"
would refer to a particular call, IMO, and "the recents" is a list of
the last several recent calls.

And yes, my phone app on my phone has tab labeled "recents", as well as
"favorites" and "contacts". But "voicemail" has no ess.

/dps "why did I write 'known' for 'noun'?"

--
Who, me? And what lacuna?

Hibou

2024-09-27 08:16:22 UTC

Post by Snidely
Just this Wednesday, Paul Carmichael explained that ...

Post by Paul Carmichael
Seen on my wife's iPhone "Recents" for recent calls/conversations.
Is this an AmE thing?

Since when? Since a long time ago, it seems (though perhaps not back to
the original apple - I mean Eve's one).

<https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=recents&year_start=1600&year_end=2022&corpus=en&smoothing=3&case_insensitive=false>

The data may be misleading, include some stray French in the 'English'
results; and scans of earlier books are definitely noisy. On the other hand:

"... we shall follow the Ancients in the materials, but the Recents in
the proportion and weight of these materials" - 'A Medical
Dispensatory', Renou, 1657.

The earliest citation of 'recent' as a noun in the OED goes back to
~1425 (with an obsolete sense: "A new or fresh infection"). 'The Recent'
(the Holocene epoch) in geology goes back at least to 1833.

Post by Snidely
[...] /dps "why did I write 'known' for 'noun'?"

Because you were talking to yourself and misheard?

Adam Funk

2024-09-27 09:35:41 UTC