dottles, dummies, and dics

[tinwhistler]

It seems possible Wiktionary may surpass OED on some entries -
consider "dottle:"

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Dottle

1. the still burning or wholly burnt tobacco plug in a pipe
2. (Geordie) a baby's "dummy".

1957: one hand guards the burning dottle of my pipe from the force of
the wind - Lawrence Durrell, Justine, p.96 (Faber)

OED:
[after an obsolete sense of a plug, as in a bottle]

The plug of tobacco ash remaining in the bottom of a pipe after
smoking. (orig. Sc.)

1825 in Jamieson. 1850 Kingsley Alt. Locke vi. (D.), A
snuffer-tray containing scraps of half-smoked tobacco, 'pipe
dottles', as he called them. 1890 R. Kipling Soldiers Three, Black
Jack (ed. 6) 84 Ortheris shot out the red-hot dottel of his pipe on the
back of his hairy fist. 1894 Doyle S. Holmes 214 His before-breakfast
pipe, which was composed of all the plugs and dottels left from his
smokes of the day before.

The OED doesn't mention, in the "dottle, n." entry, the baby's
"dummy" mentioned in Wiktionary's entry for "dottle, n." Is the
Wiki sense of "dummy" (the second sense of "dottle") now restricted to
the Geordie dialect as Wiki has it? Under "dummy, n." OED has:

f. In full dummy teat. An India rubber teat put into a baby's mouth to
soothe it. Also fig.

1903 Science Siftings 22 Aug. 269/1, I never saw the child but it
had a dummy in its mouth. 1906 Chemist & Druggist LXIX. 648/2 There
has been little progress in the shape of the 'dummy teat'. 1915 D.
H. Lawrence Let. 12 Feb. (1962) I. 316 He [sc. E. M. Forster] sucks his
dummy-you know, those child's comforters-long after his age. a1930
I Last Poems (1932) 273 The British Public..gets bigger and bigger..and
its dummy-teat has to be made bigger and bigger and bigger.

No mention in OED, thus, that "dummy" in the sense of a pacifier is
now restricted to the Geordie dialect.

Summarizing the issues:

(1) Is Wiktionary going where OED doesn't?
(2) Is "dummy" now, in the sense of a baby's pacifier, restricted
to the Geordie dialect?

[Django Cat]

Post by tinwhistler
It seems possible Wiktionary may surpass OED on some entries -
consider "dottle:"
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Dottle
1. the still burning or wholly burnt tobacco plug in a pipe
2. (Geordie) a baby's "dummy".
1957: one hand guards the burning dottle of my pipe from the force of
the wind - Lawrence Durrell, Justine, p.96 (Faber)
[after an obsolete sense of a plug, as in a bottle]
The plug of tobacco ash remaining in the bottom of a pipe after
smoking. (orig. Sc.)
1825 in Jamieson. 1850 Kingsley Alt. Locke vi. (D.), A
snuffer-tray containing scraps of half-smoked tobacco, 'pipe
dottles', as he called them. 1890 R. Kipling Soldiers Three, Black
Jack (ed. 6) 84 Ortheris shot out the red-hot dottel of his pipe on
the back of his hairy fist. 1894 Doyle S. Holmes 214 His
before-breakfast pipe, which was composed of all the plugs and
dottels left from his smokes of the day before.
The OED doesn't mention, in the "dottle, n." entry, the baby's
"dummy" mentioned in Wiktionary's entry for "dottle, n." Is the
Wiki sense of "dummy" (the second sense of "dottle") now restricted to
f. In full dummy teat. An India rubber teat put into a baby's mouth to
soothe it. Also fig.
1903 Science Siftings 22 Aug. 269/1, I never saw the child but it
had a dummy in its mouth. 1906 Chemist & Druggist LXIX. 648/2 There
has been little progress in the shape of the 'dummy teat'. 1915 D.
H. Lawrence Let. 12 Feb. (1962) I. 316 He [sc. E. M. Forster] sucks
his dummy-you know, those child's comforters-long after his age.
a1930 I Last Poems (1932) 273 The British Public..gets bigger and
bigger..and its dummy-teat has to be made bigger and bigger and
bigger.
No mention in OED, thus, that "dummy" in the sense of a pacifier is
now restricted to the Geordie dialect.
(1) Is Wiktionary going where OED doesn't?
(2) Is "dummy" now, in the sense of a baby's pacifier, restricted
to the Geordie dialect?

No. It's standard BrE, while 'pacifier' isn't. We also have to reach
for the dictionary to find out that 'diapers' is AmE for nappies.

DC

[tinwhistler]

Django Cat wrote:


One episode of the Simpsons that I wish I'd seen:

"...there is at least one episode with a flash forward
showing Maggie getting married with a dummy in her mouth......."
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.tv.simpsons/browse_frm/thread/4404ee4277f3e7ff/a55a10e5c3d76043?lnk=gst&q=pacifier&rnum=26#a55a10e5c3d76043

[Paul Blay]

Post by tinwhistler
It seems possible Wiktionary may surpass OED on some entries -
consider "dottle:"
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Dottle
1. the still burning or wholly burnt tobacco plug in a pipe
2. (Geordie) a baby's "dummy".
1957: one hand guards the burning dottle of my pipe from the force of
the wind - Lawrence Durrell, Justine, p.96 (Faber)
[after an obsolete sense of a plug, as in a bottle]
The plug of tobacco ash remaining in the bottom of a pipe after
smoking. (orig. Sc.)
1825 in Jamieson. 1850 Kingsley Alt. Locke vi. (D.), A
snuffer-tray containing scraps of half-smoked tobacco, 'pipe
dottles', as he called them. 1890 R. Kipling Soldiers Three, Black
Jack (ed. 6) 84 Ortheris shot out the red-hot dottel of his pipe on the
back of his hairy fist. 1894 Doyle S. Holmes 214 His before-breakfast
pipe, which was composed of all the plugs and dottels left from his
smokes of the day before.
The OED doesn't mention, in the "dottle, n." entry, the baby's
"dummy" mentioned in Wiktionary's entry for "dottle, n." Is the
Wiki sense of "dummy" (the second sense of "dottle") now restricted to
the Geordie dialect as Wiki has it?

I'm just passing through but isn't it just that the use of _dottle_ to mean
dummy is only valid in Geordie? I wouldn't have read that as placing
a restriction on the usage of the word dummy at all.

[Donna Richoux]

Post by tinwhistler
No mention in OED, thus, that "dummy" in the sense of a pacifier is
now restricted to the Geordie dialect.
(1) Is Wiktionary going where OED doesn't?
(2) Is "dummy" now, in the sense of a baby's pacifier, restricted
to the Geordie dialect?

I think you got tangled up in there somewhere, as happens to all of us
on occasion. Wikipedia doesn't say that "dummy" was Geordie, it said
that "dottle" was Geordie. It used "dummy" to define "dottle."

[Nick Spalding]

Post by Donna Richoux

Post by tinwhistler
No mention in OED, thus, that "dummy" in the sense of a pacifier is
now restricted to the Geordie dialect.
(1) Is Wiktionary going where OED doesn't?
(2) Is "dummy" now, in the sense of a baby's pacifier, restricted
to the Geordie dialect?

I think you got tangled up in there somewhere, as happens to all of us
on occasion. Wikipedia doesn't say that "dummy" was Geordie, it said
that "dottle" was Geordie. It used "dummy" to define "dottle."

Going off on a related topic, is "dodie" for dummy/pacifier which is common
in Ireland used anywhere else? I don't remember hearing it before I moved
here from England.

[Susan Ashton]

Post by Nick Spalding
Going off on a related topic, is "dodie" for dummy/pacifier which is common
in Ireland used anywhere else? I don't remember hearing it before I moved
here from England.

A work colleague of mine uses "dodie" for "dummy. She's about 40 and
Manchester born and bred AFAIK. I haven't noticed anyone else using the
term, though our office is large, in central Manchester, and contains
people from all over Greater Manchester and further afield. I'll have a
word with her when I see her and see where she picked it up from.
(She's a part timer so there may be a short delay before I come back to
the group.)

I particularly noticed the usage shortly after the demise of Princess Di
and, of course, Dodi.

Now here's a funny thing - I put "dodie" into a search engine and one of
the things it came up with was "French for Dummies".

[Django Cat]

Post by Susan Ashton

Post by Nick Spalding
Going off on a related topic, is "dodie" for dummy/pacifier which
is common in Ireland used anywhere else? I don't remember hearing
it before I moved here from England.

A work colleague of mine uses "dodie" for "dummy. She's about 40 and
Manchester born and bred AFAIK. I haven't noticed anyone else using
the term, though our office is large, in central Manchester, and
contains people from all over Greater Manchester and further afield.
I'll have a word with her when I see her and see where she picked it
up from. (She's a part timer so there may be a short delay before I
come back to the group.)
I particularly noticed the usage shortly after the demise of Princess
Di and, of course, Dodi.

A friend of mine received the news of the Paris crash from his 12-year
old daughter, after coming down to breakfast half asleep that Sunday
morning. Apparently what she said was:

"Di 'n Dodi's dead, Dad".

It took him a long time to suss out the word boundaries...


DC, just in Grtr Manchester.

[tinwhistler]

Post by Susan Ashton
Now here's a funny thing - I put "dodie" into a search engine and one of
the things it came up with was "French for Dummies".

Another thing that struck me as funny: (1) my wife always referred to
our kids' pacifiers as their "plugs;" (2) the oldest sense of "dottle"
in OED is that of a plug in a bottle, now archaic; so, in a way, my
wife was using "plug" much like the Geordie sense of "dottle" meaning
dummy. Sidenote: I think she was referring to the pacifier as a way to
plug a crying baby, as in the phrase "put a plug in it" -- this was
before the "new" [ie, newly popularized] technique of tight swaddling
was promulgated as an effective silencer in many such situations.

[John Dean]

Post by Nick Spalding

Post by Donna Richoux

Post by tinwhistler
No mention in OED, thus, that "dummy" in the sense of a pacifier is
now restricted to the Geordie dialect.
(1) Is Wiktionary going where OED doesn't?
(2) Is "dummy" now, in the sense of a baby's pacifier, restricted
to the Geordie dialect?

I think you got tangled up in there somewhere, as happens to all of
us on occasion. Wikipedia doesn't say that "dummy" was Geordie, it
said that "dottle" was Geordie. It used "dummy" to define "dottle."

Going off on a related topic, is "dodie" for dummy/pacifier which is
common in Ireland used anywhere else? I don't remember hearing it
before I moved here from England.

We used to use it in Manchester.

[tinwhistler]

Post by Donna Richoux
I think you got tangled up in there somewhere, as happens to all of us
on occasion. Wikipedia doesn't say that "dummy" was Geordie, it said
that "dottle" was Geordie. It used "dummy" to define "dottle."

Oops -- I messed up, sorry! Maybe Wiki and OED need a new sense of
"dottle" and "dummy:" one who can't read dictionaries intelligently.