Correct English?

[Stefan Ram]

Dudes, is this (grammatically )correct English?

|There is something that it is like to be a bat.

. (If it should matter, here's the complete sentence: "I have
said that the essence of the belief that bats have experience
is that there is something that it is like to be a bat.")

[LionelEdwards]

Post by Stefan Ram
Dudes, is this (grammatically )correct English?
|There is something that it is like to be a bat.
. (If it should matter, here's the complete sentence: "I have
said that the essence of the belief that bats have experience
is that there is something that it is like to be a bat.")

Aesop recorded "what it is like to be a bat" as "the
duplicitous are hated by everybody". Are you a bird (you
can fly and have wings)? Are you an animal like all
the other furry creatures?

If the bats can't decide for themselves then I'm not
sure grammar can help them.

[jerryfriedman]

Post by Stefan Ram
Dudes, is this (grammatically )correct English?
|There is something that it is like to be a bat.
. (If it should matter, here's the complete sentence: "I have
said that the essence of the belief that bats have experience
is that there is something that it is like to be a bat.")

And this is quoted from a well-known philosophical paper,
"What Is It Like to Be a Bat?" by Thomas Nagel.

https://www.sas.upenn.edu/~cavitch/pdf-library/Nagel_Bat.pdf

I'd say yes, it's grammatically correct. It's a bit
odd and calls attention to itself, but that's what he
wanted.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Paul Carmichael]

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Stefan Ram
|There is something that it is like to be a bat.

I'd say yes, it's grammatically correct.

I would say that it's complete nonsense.

Can anybody explain the structure of the sentence to justify it's not
being nonsense?

[Paul Carmichael]

Post by Paul Carmichael
Can anybody explain the structure of the sentence to justify it's not
being nonsense?

Erm, not sure about that apostrophe.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Post by Paul Carmichael

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Stefan Ram
|There is something that it is like to be a bat.

I'd say yes, it's grammatically correct.

I would say that it's complete nonsense.
Can anybody explain the structure of the sentence to justify it's not
being nonsense?

From memory, the title of the original article was "What is it like to
be a bat?". That makes more sense, and maybe St*f*n got his version
from some "artificial intelligence" site.

[jerryfriedman]

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by Paul Carmichael

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Stefan Ram
|There is something that it is like to be a bat.

I'd say yes, it's grammatically correct.

I would say that it's complete nonsense.
Can anybody explain the structure of the sentence to justify it's not
being nonsense?

From memory, the title of the original article was "What is it like to
be a bat?". That makes more sense, and maybe St*f*n got his version
from some "artificial intelligence" site.

No, the full version that Stefan quoted is from the article
of that title.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Ross Clark]

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by Paul Carmichael

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Stefan Ram
|There is something that it is like to be a bat.

I'd say yes, it's grammatically correct.

I would say that it's complete nonsense.
Can anybody explain the structure of the sentence to justify it's not
being nonsense?

From memory, the title of the original article was "What is it like to
be a bat?". That makes more sense, and maybe St*f*n got his version
from some "artificial intelligence" site.

No, the full version that Stefan quoted is from the article
of that title.
--
Jerry Friedman

The question "What is it like to be a bat?" would, I think, make sense
to many people.
An answer to that question would be of the form: "To be a bat is
like....[something]."

The philosopher (Nagel) is arguing that we can actually answer the
question only if we believe the bat has consciousness. (Most people
would not find "What is it like to be a rock?" equally sensible.)

So, more generally, he says "[T]he fact that an organism has
conscious experience at all means, basically, that there is something
it is like to be that organism."

Thus the offending statement.

Fortunately the entire paper is here:

https://www.sas.upenn.edu/~cavitch/pdf-library/Nagel_Bat.pdf

[Stefan Ram]

Post by Ross Clark
Thus the offending statement.

If the linguistic correctness of this text is up for grabs, we
might as well call it a shot in the dark that hits the nail on the
head in terms of style, given how gnarly the subject matter is.

After all, we're barking up the wrong tree trying to put our
finger on the nature of consciousness and qualia, since it's
all Greek to us due to how mind-bogglingly subjective the whole
shebang is. It's like trying to describe a sunset to someone
who's never seen colors - we're just not wired to grok it.

[Janet]

Post by Stefan Ram

Post by Ross Clark
Thus the offending statement.

If the linguistic correctness of this text is up for grabs, we
might as well call it a shot in the dark that hits the nail on the
head in terms of style, given how gnarly the subject matter is.
After all, we're barking up the wrong tree trying to put our
finger on the nature of consciousness and qualia, since it's
all Greek to us due to how mind-bogglingly subjective the whole
shebang is. It's like trying to describe a sunset to someone
who's never seen colors - we're just not wired to grok it.

more ****

Janet

[Sam Plusnet]

Post by Janet

Post by Stefan Ram
After all, we're barking up the wrong tree trying to put our
finger on the nature of consciousness and qualia, since it's
all Greek to us due to how mind-bogglingly subjective the whole
shebang is. It's like trying to describe a sunset to someone
who's never seen colors - we're just not wired to grok it.

more ****

More kf, less ****.

[jerryfriedman]

Post by Ross Clark

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by Paul Carmichael

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Stefan Ram
|There is something that it is like to be a bat.

I'd say yes, it's grammatically correct.

I would say that it's complete nonsense.
Can anybody explain the structure of the sentence to justify it's not
being nonsense?

From memory, the title of the original article was "What is it like to
be a bat?". That makes more sense, and maybe St*f*n got his version
from some "artificial intelligence" site.

No, the full version that Stefan quoted is from the article
of that title.
--
Jerry Friedman

The question "What is it like to be a bat?" would, I think, make sense
to many people.
An answer to that question would be of the form: "To be a bat is
like....[something]."
The philosopher (Nagel) is arguing that we can actually answer the
question only if we believe the bat has consciousness. (Most people
would not find "What is it like to be a rock?" equally sensible.)
So, more generally, he says "[T]he fact that an organism has
conscious experience at all means, basically, that there is something
it is like to be that organism."
Thus the offending statement.
https://www.sas.upenn.edu/~cavitch/pdf-library/Nagel_Bat.pdf

It also contains the exact sentence that Stefan quoted.

Incidentally, the paleoprescriptivist version is even
stranger: "There is something like which it is to be
a bat."

(A paleoprescriptivist wouldn't like "paleoprescriptivist".
Maybe "antiquiprescriptivist"?)

--
Jerry Friedman

[Janet]

In article <veg7tl$l78c$***@dont-email.me>, ***@yahoo.com
says...

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by Paul Carmichael

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Stefan Ram
|There is something that it is like to be a bat.

I'd say yes, it's grammatically correct.

I would say that it's complete nonsense.
Can anybody explain the structure of the sentence to justify it's not
being nonsense?

From memory, the title of the original article was "What is it like to
be a bat?". That makes more sense, and maybe St*f*n got his version
from some "artificial intelligence" site.

****

Janet

[Chris Elvidge]

Post by Stefan Ram
Dudes, is this (grammatically )correct English?
|There is something that it is like to be a bat.
. (If it should matter, here's the complete sentence: "I have
said that the essence of the belief that bats have experience
is that there is something that it is like to be a bat.")

Twinkle, twinkle little bat
How I wonder what you're at
Up above the world so high
Like a tea-tray in the sky

[lar3ryca]

Post by Chris Elvidge

   Dudes, is this (grammatically )correct English?
|There is something that it is like to be a bat.
   . (If it should matter, here's the complete sentence: "I have
   said that the essence of the belief that bats have experience
   is that there is something that it is like to be a bat.")

Twinkle, twinkle little bat
How I wonder what you're at
Up above the world so high
Like a tea-tray in the sky

Scintillate, scintillate diminutive glovivic
Fain would I fathom thy nature specific
Perch on high in ether capacious
Strongly resembling a gem, carbonaceous.

[occam]

Post by Stefan Ram
Dudes, is this (grammatically )correct English?

'Dudes'?

Go ram yourself against a rigid post, why don't you.

[Snidely]

Post by occam

Post by Stefan Ram
Dudes, is this (grammatically )correct English?

'Dudes'?
Go ram yourself against a rigid post, why don't you.

Well, he's likely to treat that advice like all the other advice you've
given him, but if you enjoy the effort, continue to read his messages.

/dps