eight brace

[Marius Hancu]

Hello:

I wonder what "brace" means in this context. Is it "pairs"? It seems
that in BrE, "brace" also means "pair".

----
[There has been a duck hunting event on the Mareotis lake. They're
each reporting how many birds have shot]
"Nessim," I shout. "How did you do? I got eight brace and one lost."

Lawrence Durrell, Justine, p. 216
------

Thus, did he shoot 8 or 16 ducks?

Thank you.
Marius Hancu

[mUs1Ka]

Post by Marius Hancu
I wonder what "brace" means in this context. Is it "pairs"? It seems
that in BrE, "brace" also means "pair".
----
[There has been a duck hunting event on the Mareotis lake. They're
each reporting how many birds have shot]
"Nessim," I shout. "How did you do? I got eight brace and one lost."
Lawrence Durrell, Justine, p. 216
------
Thus, did he shoot 8 or 16 ducks?

16.

[Adrian Bailey]

Post by Marius Hancu
I wonder what "brace" means in this context. Is it "pairs"? It seems
that in BrE, "brace" also means "pair".

pair or pairs. and I don't think it's just BrE.

Post by Marius Hancu
----
[There has been a duck hunting event on the Mareotis lake. They're
each reporting how many birds have shot]
"Nessim," I shout. "How did you do? I got eight brace and one lost."
Lawrence Durrell, Justine, p. 216
------
Thus, did he shoot 8 or 16 ducks?

16, though I'm not sure why they're counted in pairs.

Adrian

[Evan Kirshenbaum]

Post by Adrian Bailey
16, though I'm not sure why they're counted in pairs.

I suspect that they were tied together at the neck or legs for ease of
transport (e.g., by slinging over a shoulder or over a horse).

The OED says that it was first used (1430) of dogs, with the remark
that

Perhaps the band or cord with which dogs were coupled in coursing
was called a _brace_

The "other enimals, _esp._ certain kinds of game" is cited to 1570
(deer), with other quotes for geldings (1651), "trouts" [sic] (1715),
and partridges (1741). That last is instructive, as it talks about "a
Brace or Leash of Live Partridges".

One of their senses of "leash", which I wasn't familiar with is "a set
of three", used mainly of "hounds, hawks, foxes, hares, deer, etc.".
The first quote, about dogs, is ca. 1320.

So perhaps you used a rigid "brace" to tie two animals together, but
needed a flexible "leash" to secure three together.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |If the human brain were so simple
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |That we could understand it,
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |We would be so simple
|That we couldn't.
***@hpl.hp.com
[phone]

http://www.kirshenbaum.net/

[Don A. Gilmore]

Post by Marius Hancu
I wonder what "brace" means in this context. Is it "pairs"? It seems
that in BrE, "brace" also means "pair".
----
[There has been a duck hunting event on the Mareotis lake. They're
each reporting how many birds have shot]
"Nessim," I shout. "How did you do? I got eight brace and one lost."
Lawrence Durrell, Justine, p. 216
------
Thus, did he shoot 8 or 16 ducks?

16 ducks. It is often used in bird hunting (I've heard it used more in
quail hunting than waterfowl) and means the same thing as "pair". I've
never heard it used in any other contexts, though it might be in some
regions.

Don
Kansas City

[Marius Hancu]

Post by Don A. Gilmore
16 ducks. It is often used in bird hunting (I've heard it used more in
quail hunting than waterfowl) and means the same thing as "pair". I've
never heard it used in any other contexts, though it might be in some
regions.

Thank you both.
Marius Hancu

[John Dawkins]

Post by Don A. Gilmore

Post by Marius Hancu
I wonder what "brace" means in this context. Is it "pairs"? It seems
that in BrE, "brace" also means "pair".
----
[There has been a duck hunting event on the Mareotis lake. They're
each reporting how many birds have shot]
"Nessim," I shout. "How did you do? I got eight brace and one lost."
Lawrence Durrell, Justine, p. 216
------
Thus, did he shoot 8 or 16 ducks?

16 ducks. It is often used in bird hunting (I've heard it used more in
quail hunting than waterfowl) and means the same thing as "pair". I've
never heard it used in any other contexts, though it might be in some
regions.

How about a "brace of pistols"?

[Ian Noble]

Post by John Dawkins

Post by Don A. Gilmore

Post by Marius Hancu
I wonder what "brace" means in this context. Is it "pairs"? It seems
that in BrE, "brace" also means "pair".
----
[There has been a duck hunting event on the Mareotis lake. They're
each reporting how many birds have shot]
"Nessim," I shout. "How did you do? I got eight brace and one lost."
Lawrence Durrell, Justine, p. 216
------
Thus, did he shoot 8 or 16 ducks?

16 ducks. It is often used in bird hunting (I've heard it used more in
quail hunting than waterfowl) and means the same thing as "pair". I've
never heard it used in any other contexts, though it might be in some
regions.

How about a "brace of pistols"?

I'll get back to you on that in a brace of shakes.

Cheers - Ian
("They disguised themselves as two sheiks - a braces of sheiks. They
were no great shakes, but it sufficed." - Bill Oddie, I'm Sorry I'll
Read That Again, c.1970)

[Martin Ambuhl]

Post by Ian Noble
I'll get back to you on that in a brace of shakes.

I knew that sheep would get into this thread sometime.

[Father Ignatius]

Post by Marius Hancu
I wonder what "brace" means in this context. Is it "pairs"? It seems

Yes.

Post by Marius Hancu
that in BrE, "brace" also means "pair".

Yes, as in "a brace of barmaids."

Post by Marius Hancu
----
[There has been a duck hunting event on the Mareotis lake. They're
each reporting how many birds have shot]
"Nessim," I shout. "How did you do? I got eight brace and one lost."
Lawrence Durrell, Justine, p. 216
------
Thus, did he shoot 8 or 16 ducks?

He shot at 17 ducks, and missed one.

Post by Marius Hancu
Thank you.
Marius Hancu

[John Dean]

Post by Father Ignatius

Post by Marius Hancu
I wonder what "brace" means in this context. Is it "pairs"? It seems

Yes.

Post by Marius Hancu
that in BrE, "brace" also means "pair".

Yes, as in "a brace of barmaids."

Post by Marius Hancu
----
[There has been a duck hunting event on the Mareotis lake. They're
each reporting how many birds have shot]
"Nessim," I shout. "How did you do? I got eight brace and one lost."
Lawrence Durrell, Justine, p. 216
------
Thus, did he shoot 8 or 16 ducks?

He shot at 17 ducks, and missed one.

Not necessarily. He might have shot at dozens. I take "eight brace and
one lost" to mean he has 16 ducks hit by him retrieved by his dog and
one duck he believes he downed which the dog couldn't find.

[Harvey Van Sickle]

Post by Father Ignatius
He shot at 17 ducks, and missed one.

Not necessarily. He might have shot at dozens. I take "eight brace

and one lost" to mean he has 16 ducks hit by him retrieved by his
dog and one duck he believes he downed which the dog couldn't
find.

Similar reading here, except I couldn't decide if "eight brace and one
lost" meant "one duck lost", or "one brace lost".

[Marius Hancu]

Post by John Dean
Not necessarily. He might have shot at dozens. I take "eight brace and
one lost" to mean he has 16 ducks hit by him retrieved by his dog and
one duck he believes he downed which the dog couldn't find.

Indeed, 16 hit, or shot down, not just shot.

However it wasn't a dog getting the birds:

"Now the tireless Faraj [the loader] is out poling about like mad to
retrieve the birds".

Thank you.
Marius Hancu

[John Dean]

Post by Marius Hancu

Post by John Dean
Not necessarily. He might have shot at dozens. I take "eight brace
and one lost" to mean he has 16 ducks hit by him retrieved by his
dog and one duck he believes he downed which the dog couldn't find.

Indeed, 16 hit, or shot down, not just shot.
"Now the tireless Faraj [the loader] is out poling about like mad to
retrieve the birds".

You're sure there wasn't a water spaniel around? They need help getting
the birds back but they're usually needed to find the birds in the first
place.

[Marius Hancu]

Post by John Dean

Post by Marius Hancu
"Now the tireless Faraj [the loader] is out poling about like mad to
retrieve the birds".

You're sure there wasn't a water spaniel around? They need help getting
the birds back but they're usually needed to find the birds in the
first place.

No dogs mentioned at all.

"Faraj is still at work painstakingly tracking down stragglers among the
reeds with the single-mindedness of a retriever."

Marius Hancu

[Don Phillipson]

Post by Marius Hancu
I wonder what "brace" means in this context. Is it "pairs"? It seems
that in BrE, "brace" also means "pair".
----
[There has been a duck hunting event on the Mareotis lake. They're
each reporting how many birds have shot]
"Nessim," I shout. "How did you do? I got eight brace and one lost."
Lawrence Durrell, Justine, p. 216

This is hunting jargon, thus linked to social
class in English because upper class hunting
jargon entered the general language (probably
in the early 1800s) while working class hunting
jargon did not (and there may have been none.)
People of lower social standing were not expected
to know or use this jargon correctly: social climbers
put considerable effort into learning and demonstratng it.

1. Birds are counted in twos and each two
birds are a brace.
2. Hunting dogs are also counted in twos and
each two dogs are a couple.
3. When used in this jargon, the plural of brace
is brace and the plural of couple is couple. Thus
"I got eight brace" of ducks or
"We took four couple of hounds out for exercise."

[John Dean]

Post by Don Phillipson

Post by Marius Hancu
I wonder what "brace" means in this context. Is it "pairs"? It seems
that in BrE, "brace" also means "pair".
----
[There has been a duck hunting event on the Mareotis lake. They're
each reporting how many birds have shot]
"Nessim," I shout. "How did you do? I got eight brace and one lost."
Lawrence Durrell, Justine, p. 216

This is hunting jargon, thus linked to social
class in English because upper class hunting
jargon entered the general language (probably
in the early 1800s) while working class hunting
jargon did not (and there may have been none.)
People of lower social standing were not expected

Except, of course, where those of "lower social standing" were actively
involved with the upper class and the parvenus - as beaters, loaders,
dog handlers and such thereby outnumbering the guns by ten or twenty to
one.

[Don A. Gilmore]

Post by Don Phillipson
This is hunting jargon, thus linked to social
class in English because upper class hunting
jargon entered the general language (probably
in the early 1800s) while working class hunting
jargon did not (and there may have been none.)
People of lower social standing were not expected
to know or use this jargon correctly: social climbers
put considerable effort into learning and demonstratng it.
1. Birds are counted in twos and each two
birds are a brace.
2. Hunting dogs are also counted in twos and
each two dogs are a couple.
3. When used in this jargon, the plural of brace
is brace and the plural of couple is couple. Thus
"I got eight brace" of ducks or
"We took four couple of hounds out for exercise."

I wonder what happens when you shoot an odd number of birds? Is one bird a
"half brace"?

Don
Kansas City

[Don Phillipson]

Post by Don A. Gilmore
I wonder what happens when you shoot an odd number of birds? Is one bird a
"half brace"?

Just so.

[Marius Hancu]

Post by Don Phillipson
This is hunting jargon, thus linked to social
class in English because upper class hunting
jargon entered the general language (probably
in the early 1800s) while working class hunting
jargon did not (and there may have been none.)
People of lower social standing were not expected
to know or use this jargon correctly: social climbers
put considerable effort into learning and demonstratng it.
1. Birds are counted in twos and each two
birds are a brace.
2. Hunting dogs are also counted in twos and
each two dogs are a couple.
3. When used in this jargon, the plural of brace
is brace and the plural of couple is couple. Thus
"I got eight brace" of ducks or
"We took four couple of hounds out for exercise."

I assumed it's hunting jargon, but I didn't know these details.

Now all this seems to have percolated into the general hunting jargon.

Birds seem to be carefully counted by "braces" or "couples," depending
on their kind:
---------
http://www.myoan.net/hunting/jargon.html#B

Brace - Standard term for two quail, partidge, pheasant grouse, hares or
dogs.

Couple - Two woodcock, snipe, waterfowl, shorebirds, or rabbits. Also
used to describe two hounds.

Leash - A group of three quail, partridge, pheasant, grouse, or hares.
Also, a cord to lead a dog, a dog lead.
[just what Evan Kirshenbaum mentioned]
---------

Thank you all - I am ready for hunting!
Marius Hancu

[Mike Lyle]

Post by Marius Hancu

Post by Don Phillipson
This is hunting jargon, thus linked to social
class in English because upper class hunting
jargon entered the general language (probably
in the early 1800s) while working class hunting
jargon did not (and there may have been none.)
People of lower social standing were not expected
to know or use this jargon correctly: social climbers
put considerable effort into learning and demonstratng it.
1. Birds are counted in twos and each two
birds are a brace.
2. Hunting dogs are also counted in twos and
each two dogs are a couple.
3. When used in this jargon, the plural of brace
is brace and the plural of couple is couple. Thus
"I got eight brace" of ducks or
"We took four couple of hounds out for exercise."

I assumed it's hunting jargon, but I didn't know these details.
Now all this seems to have percolated into the general hunting

jargon.

Post by Marius Hancu
Birds seem to be carefully counted by "braces" or "couples,"

depending

Post by Marius Hancu
---------
http://www.myoan.net/hunting/jargon.html#B
Brace - Standard term for two quail, partidge, pheasant grouse,

hares

Post by Marius Hancu
or dogs.
Couple - Two woodcock, snipe, waterfowl, shorebirds, or rabbits. Also
used to describe two hounds.
Leash - A group of three quail, partridge, pheasant, grouse, or hares.
Also, a cord to lead a dog, a dog lead.
[just what Evan Kirshenbaum mentioned]
---------
Thank you all - I am ready for hunting!
Marius Hancu

Fishing, too. I still hope one day to come home with a leash of
sea-trout, but I fear I become yet more clumsy with age.

The thing about upper- and lower-class language is here
over-simplified. It's more a question of the difference between
country people and socially-mobile townspeople which became so
important with the explosion of British society in Victoria's time.
The ruling, if rather false, stereotype was that the upper classes
were essentially rural; though not myself a witness, an older friend
who grew up in the Dukeries as a miner's son told me that on their
home ground the Dukes before the War spoke like the farmers. I
imagine that in the House of Lords or, like everybody else in those
days before a microphone, these Dukes poshed up a bit. My own
observation of the classes in, e.g., Ireland in our own time supports
that idea.