[Brackets talking ]

Post by occam
As someone who probably resorts to brackets too often, I was chuffed to
https://xkcd.com/2954/

Yes, but it perpetuates the myth that British publishers don't use
double quotation marks.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

occam

2024-09-09 09:45:18 UTC

Post by occam
As someone who probably resorts to brackets too often, I was chuffed to
https://xkcd.com/2954/

Yes, but it perpetuates the myth that British publishers don't use
double quotation marks.

No, sorry. That is NOT what is implied. The table says that single
quotations are reserved - not just by British publishers - for BrE (RP)
speech. It's not true, but it is a fun conjecture.

Hibou

2024-09-09 08:06:24 UTC

Post by occam
As someone who probably resorts to brackets too often, I was chuffed to
https://xkcd.com/2954/
Happy Monday.

There's one missing - the French 'parenthèse enchantée' (enchanted
interlude).

Though British, my mental style sheet prefers double inverted commas for
dialogue, because single ones, I find, are too light on the page. (I
like to think of this as a small victory for logic over prejudice.)

occam

2024-09-09 09:40:54 UTC

Post by occam
As someone who probably resorts to brackets too often, I was chuffed to
https://xkcd.com/2954/
Happy Monday.

There's one missing - the French 'parenthèse enchantée' (enchanted
interlude).

There is another missing form: (( () (.)) for LISPers.

I was under the impression that << >> _was_ the French form of quotes.
How does parenthèse enchantée manifest itself? And why would it figure
in an English language joke?

Post by Hibou
Though British, my mental style sheet prefers double inverted commas for
dialogue, because single ones, I find, are too light on the page. (I
like to think of this as a small victory for logic over prejudice.)

Adam Funk

2024-09-09 16:34:17 UTC

Post by occam
As someone who probably resorts to brackets too often, I was chuffed to
https://xkcd.com/2954/
Happy Monday.

There's one missing - the French 'parenthèse enchantée' (enchanted
interlude).

There is another missing form: (( () (.)) for LISPers.

Already covered:

<https://xkcd.com/297/>

Post by occam
I was under the impression that << >> _was_ the French form of quotes.
How does parenthèse enchantée manifest itself? And why would it figure
in an English language joke?

--
With the breakdown of the medieval system, the gods of chaos, lunacy,
and bad taste gained ascendancy. ---Ignatius J Reilly

lar3ryca

2024-09-09 23:00:03 UTC

Post by occam
As someone who probably resorts to brackets too often, I was chuffed to
https://xkcd.com/2954/
Happy Monday.

There's one missing - the French 'parenthèse enchantée' (enchanted
interlude).
Though British, my mental style sheet prefers double inverted commas for
dialogue, because single ones, I find, are too light on the page. (I
like to think of this as a small victory for logic over prejudice.)

"Double inverted commas" has always struck me as weird. Are they really
inverted commas or are they rotated and elevated?
For that matter, do the 'begin quote' and 'end quote' consist of one of
each or are they the same?

--
Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit.
Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad.

Bertel Lund Hansen

2024-09-10 07:20:21 UTC

Post by lar3ryca
"Double inverted commas" has always struck me as weird. Are they really
inverted commas or are they rotated and elevated?
For that matter, do the 'begin quote' and 'end quote' consist of one of
each or are they the same?

They have nothing to do with commas, they just look the same. The Danish
style was (at the time of my childhood) “ ” - except that the first set
ought to be at the bottom.

Today pretty much anything goes (single, double, up, down, inverted or
not) so long as you are consistent.

I've written so much on computer that I am used to "". In language
groups I use doubles around words or expressions under discussion and
singles for any other use (which is seldom).

--
Bertel
Kolt, Denmark

Aidan Kehoe

2024-09-10 07:48:15 UTC

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

They have nothing to do with commas, they just look the same. The Danish
style was (at the time of my childhood) “ ” - except that the first set
ought to be at the bottom.

„Like this?” Or was the quotation mark at the bottom actually going in the same
direction as you wrote, like so: ⹂

--
‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
(C. Moore)

Bertel Lund Hansen

2024-09-10 12:29:16 UTC

Post by Aidan Kehoe

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen
They have nothing to do with commas, they just look the same. The Danish
style was (at the time of my childhood) “ ” - except that the first set
ought to be at the bottom.

„Like this?”

Yes.

Post by Aidan Kehoe
Or was the quotation mark at the bottom actually going in the same
direction as you wrote, like so: ⹂

When writing myself I didn't consider the direction. I probably just
wrote ". When reading I didn't notice the quotation marks.

--
Bertel
Kolt, Denmark

Hibou

2024-09-10 16:17:54 UTC

Post by lar3ryca

Post by Hibou
Though British, my mental style sheet prefers double inverted commas
for dialogue, because single ones, I find, are too light on the page.
(I like to think of this as a small victory for logic over prejudice.)

The opening pair may indeed have been commas inverted:

"In 1770, Philip Luckombe published a book addressed to the printing
trade. In it, he gave considerable attention to the business of
quotations. He told fellow printers that: Comma's [sic] are used to
distinguish quoted Matter from the mean Text for which purpose two
inverted Comma's are put at the beginning of such Matter and continued
before each line of the quotation till the close thereof is signified by
two Apostrophus which by some is called the Mark for Silence intimating
thereby that the borrowed or quoted passage from another Author ceases
with that mark" -
<http://www.englishproject.org/november-and-quotation-mark>

Adam Funk

2024-09-11 09:05:18 UTC

Post by lar3ryca

Post by Hibou
Though British, my mental style sheet prefers double inverted commas
for dialogue, because single ones, I find, are too light on the page.
(I like to think of this as a small victory for logic over prejudice.)

"In 1770, Philip Luckombe published a book addressed to the printing
trade. In it, he gave considerable attention to the business of
quotations. He told fellow printers that: Comma's [sic] are used to

Did he also publish advice to the greengrocers?

Post by Hibou
distinguish quoted Matter from the mean Text for which purpose two
inverted Comma's are put at the beginning of such Matter and continued
before each line of the quotation till the close thereof is signified by
two Apostrophus which by some is called the Mark for Silence intimating
thereby that the borrowed or quoted passage from another Author ceases
with that mark" -
<http://www.englishproject.org/november-and-quotation-mark>

--
...and Tom [Snyder] turns to him and says, "so Alice [Cooper], is it
true you kill chickens on stage?" That was the opening question, and
Alice looks at him real serious and goes, "Oh no, no no. That's
Colonel Sanders. Colonel Sanders kills chickens."

occam

2024-09-10 06:40:31 UTC

Post by occam
As someone who probably resorts to brackets too often, I was chuffed to
https://xkcd.com/2954/
Happy Monday.

There's one missing - the French 'parenthèse enchantée' (enchanted
interlude).

Do I understand correctly - that this has nothing to do with actual
printed characters but is a linguistic metaphor? How French!

jerryfriedman

2024-09-10 13:42:19 UTC

Post by occam
As someone who probably resorts to brackets too often, I was chuffed to
https://xkcd.com/2954/
Happy Monday.

There's one missing - the French 'parenthèse enchantée' (enchanted
interlude).

Do I understand correctly - that this has nothing to do with actual
printed characters but is a linguistic metaphor? How French!

It is a linguistic metaphor, and it does have nothing to do
with printed characters. "Parenthesis" meant a side remark
before it meant a punctuation mark.

https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=parenthesis

--
Jerry Friedman

occam

2024-09-10 16:21:40 UTC

Post by occam
As someone who probably resorts to brackets too often, I was chuffed to
https://xkcd.com/2954/
Happy Monday.

There's one missing - the French 'parenthèse enchantée' (enchanted
interlude).

Do I understand correctly - that this has nothing to do with actual
printed characters but is a linguistic metaphor? How French!

Thanks. I wanted to make sure that the French expression (with which I
am unfamiliar) had the same meaning as the English 'in parenthesis'. My
doubt was triggered by the 'enchantée' qualifier. Had the subject been
fairies, unicorns or some other random French /fantaisie/ I would not
have been so phased.

Hibou

2024-09-10 16:18:08 UTC

Post by Hibou
There's one missing - the French 'parenthèse enchantée' (enchanted
interlude).

Do I understand correctly - that this has nothing to do with actual
printed characters but is a linguistic metaphor? How French!

The meaning exists in English too - "[Sense] 3. figurative. An interval,
an interlude, a hiatus" - OED.

"The war's ... a parenthesis. A mad life in brackets" - A. Burgess, 1989.

occam

2024-09-10 16:45:36 UTC

Post by Hibou
There's one missing - the French 'parenthèse enchantée' (enchanted
interlude).

Do I understand correctly - that this has nothing to do with actual
printed characters but is a linguistic metaphor? How French!

The meaning exists in English too - "[Sense] 3. figurative. An interval,
an interlude, a hiatus" - OED.

Yes, but less enchanted. Trust the French to over-embellish their
∫ parentheses ∫.

Post by Hibou
"The war's ... a parenthesis. A mad life in brackets" - A. Burgess, 1989.

Steve Hayes

2024-09-11 00:22:21 UTC

On Tue, 10 Sep 2024 17:18:08 +0100, Hibou

Post by Hibou
There's one missing - the French 'parenthèse enchantée' (enchanted
interlude).

Do I understand correctly - that this has nothing to do with actual
printed characters but is a linguistic metaphor? How French!

The meaning exists in English too - "[Sense] 3. figurative. An interval,
an interlude, a hiatus" - OED.

The primary meaning of "parenthesis" is the material between the
brackets rather than the brackets themselves, which is why parentheses
can be marked by various styles of brackets, as well as dashes and
other forms of punctuation.

Post by Hibou
"The war's ... a parenthesis. A mad life in brackets" - A. Burgess, 1989.

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

Steve Hayes

2024-09-09 15:13:26 UTC

Post by occam
As someone who probably resorts to brackets too often, I was chuffed to
https://xkcd.com/2954/

You can, however, set regular parentheses aside with dashes -- em or
en -- or even hyphens.

Some of the others cause problems.

[ ] are field markers in one of my database programs.

« » are formatting commands in one of my word processors. «MDBO» for
example is BOLD.

and < > are likewise formatting commands and other indicators in
HTML

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2024-09-09 15:53:59 UTC

Post by occam
As someone who probably resorts to brackets too often, I was chuffed to
https://xkcd.com/2954/

You can, however, set regular parentheses aside with dashes -- em or
en -- or even hyphens.
Some of the others cause problems.
[ ] are field markers in one of my database programs.
« » are formatting commands in one of my word processors. «MDBO» for
example is BOLD.
and < > are likewise formatting commands and other indicators in
HTML

Hyphens I would regard as quite wrong. En dashes are acceptable but em
dashes are better.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

Steve Hayes

2024-09-10 12:30:47 UTC

Post by occam
As someone who probably resorts to brackets too often, I was chuffed to
https://xkcd.com/2954/

You can, however, set regular parentheses aside with dashes -- em or
en -- or even hyphens.
Some of the oth rs cause problems.
[ ] are field markers in one of my database programs.
« » are formatting commands in one of my word processors. «MDBO» for
example is BOLD.
and < > are likewise formatting commands and other indicators in
HTML

Hyphens I would regard as quite wrong. En dashes are acceptable but em
dashes are better.

But if you are using the Ascii character set hyphens might be the only
thing available. Some word processing programs can convert double
hyphens to dashes.

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

Hibou

2024-09-10 16:27:42 UTC

Post by Steve Hayes
But if you are using the Ascii character set hyphens might be the only
thing available. Some word processing programs can convert double
hyphens to dashes.

Or, in the old days, a typewriter. If the thing had spaces before and
after, it was a dash; if it hadn't, it was a hyphen.

Peter Moylan

2024-09-11 01:36:49 UTC

Post by Steve Hayes
But if you are using the Ascii character set hyphens might be the
only thing available. Some word processing programs can convert
double hyphens to dashes.

I think it's LaTex where a double hyphen becomes an n-dash and a triple
hyphen becomes an m-dash. But I could be wrong, because I haven't used
it for a while.

Post by Hibou
Or, in the old days, a typewriter. If the thing had spaces before and
after, it was a dash; if it hadn't, it was a hyphen.

That's still my criterion. I dislike the modern fashion for omitting the
spaces around a dash.

--
Peter Moylan ***@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2024-09-11 06:24:03 UTC

Post by Steve Hayes
But if you are using the Ascii character set hyphens might be the
only thing available. Some word processing programs can convert
double hyphens to dashes.

I think it's LaTex where a double hyphen becomes an n-dash and a triple
hyphen becomes an m-dash. But I could be wrong, because I haven't used
it for a while.

Yes. That's exacty what LaTeX does.

Post by Hibou
Or, in the old days, a typewriter. If the thing had spaces before and
after, it was a dash; if it hadn't, it was a hyphen.

That's still my criterion. I dislike the modern fashion for omitting the
spaces around a dash.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

jerryfriedman

2024-09-11 13:22:29 UTC

Post by Steve Hayes
But if you are using the Ascii character set hyphens might be the
only thing available. Some word processing programs can convert
double hyphens to dashes.

I think it's LaTex where a double hyphen becomes an n-dash and a triple
hyphen becomes an m-dash. But I could be wrong, because I haven't used
it for a while.

Also plain TeX.

Post by Hibou
Or, in the old days, a typewriter. If the thing had spaces before and
after, it was a dash; if it hadn't, it was a hyphen.

That's still my criterion. I dislike the modern fashion for omitting the
spaces around a dash.

I dislike the modern fashion of putting spaces around a dash.

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2024-09-11 14:14:47 UTC

Post by Steve Hayes
But if you are using the Ascii character set hyphens might be the
only thing available. Some word processing programs can convert
double hyphens to dashes.

I think it's LaTex where a double hyphen becomes an n-dash and a triple
hyphen becomes an m-dash. But I could be wrong, because I haven't used
it for a while.

Also plain TeX.

Post by Hibou
Or, in the old days, a typewriter. If the thing had spaces before and
after, it was a dash; if it hadn't, it was a hyphen.

That's still my criterion. I dislike the modern fashion for omitting the
spaces around a dash.

I dislike the modern fashion of putting spaces around a dash.

I'm on your side on this question.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

Bertel Lund Hansen

2024-09-12 05:31:25 UTC

Post by Peter Moylan
That's still my criterion. I dislike the modern fashion for omitting the
spaces around a dash.

I dislike the modern fashion of putting spaces around a dash.

I'm on your side on this question.

Would that be before or after the space?

--
Bertel
Kolt, Denmark

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2024-09-12 07:29:52 UTC

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by Peter Moylan
That's still my criterion. I dislike the modern fashion for omitting the
spaces around a dash.

I dislike the modern fashion of putting spaces around a dash.

I'm on your side on this question.

Would that be before or after the space?

A witticism, I know, but it reminds me of modern Spanish typography
---to the extent that I understand it--- in which there is a space on
one side but not on the other. So ( is z--- and ) is ---z, where z
represents a fixed-width space.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2024-09-12 15:51:50 UTC

Post by Steve Hayes
But if you are using the Ascii character set hyphens might be the
only thing available. Some word processing programs can convert
double hyphens to dashes.

I think it's LaTex where a double hyphen becomes an n-dash and a triple
hyphen becomes an m-dash. But I could be wrong, because I haven't used
it for a while.

Also plain TeX.

I haven't use TeX but can confirm it for LaTeX. (Now if PTD were here,
he'd butt in to tell us yet again how much he hates the default
fonts.)

I don't think he ever figured out how to put

\usepackage {mathpazo}

or

\usepackage {times}

in the preamble. I don't like Computer Modern either, but there is a
simple one-line solution: don't use it.

At the moment I'm using

\usepackage{librebaskerville}

as it's appropriate for a (non-mathematical) document I'm preparing.

Post by Hibou
Or, in the old days, a typewriter. If the thing had spaces before and
after, it was a dash; if it hadn't, it was a hyphen.

That's still my criterion. I dislike the modern fashion for omitting the
spaces around a dash.

I dislike the modern fashion of putting spaces around a dash.

I'm on your side on this question.

So am I, but I thought it was British (except OUP)

Yes, but OUP is not an obscure publisher that no one has heard of.

rather than modern
to use a spaced en-dash where American & OUP printing styles use an
em-dash.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

Adam Funk

2024-09-13 13:44:05 UTC

Post by Steve Hayes
But if you are using the Ascii character set hyphens might be the
only thing available. Some word processing programs can convert
double hyphens to dashes.

I think it's LaTex where a double hyphen becomes an n-dash and a triple
hyphen becomes an m-dash. But I could be wrong, because I haven't used
it for a while.

Also plain TeX.

I haven't use TeX but can confirm it for LaTeX. (Now if PTD were here,
he'd butt in to tell us yet again how much he hates the default
fonts.)

I don't think he ever figured out how to put
\usepackage {mathpazo}
or
\usepackage {times}
in the preamble. I don't like Computer Modern either, but there is a
simple one-line solution: don't use it.
At the moment I'm using
\usepackage{librebaskerville}
as it's appropriate for a (non-mathematical) document I'm preparing.

I don't have a problem with the Computer Modern fonts, although I like
mathpazo better. I don't think I've used librebaskerville but I'll
take a look.

--
I never met a people who were better at not getting to the
point than the Brits. ---Rich Hall

Steve Hayes

2024-09-13 03:23:47 UTC

Post by Steve Hayes
But if you are using the Ascii character set hyphens might be the
only thing available. Some word processing programs can convert
double hyphens to dashes.

I think it's LaTex where a double hyphen becomes an n-dash and a triple
hyphen becomes an m-dash. But I could be wrong, because I haven't used
it for a while.

Also plain TeX.

I haven't use TeX but can confirm it for LaTeX. (Now if PTD were here,
he'd butt in to tell us yet again how much he hates the default
fonts.)

It works for MS Word too, which also can convert words bracketede by
asterisks to bold and those bracketed by underlines (AmE =
underscores) to italic. But MS Word can't do microjustification.

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

Adam Funk

2024-09-13 13:28:10 UTC

Post by Steve Hayes
But if you are using the Ascii character set hyphens might be the
only thing available. Some word processing programs can convert
double hyphens to dashes.

I think it's LaTex where a double hyphen becomes an n-dash and a triple
hyphen becomes an m-dash. But I could be wrong, because I haven't used
it for a while.

Also plain TeX.

I haven't use TeX but can confirm it for LaTeX. (Now if PTD were here,
he'd butt in to tell us yet again how much he hates the default
fonts.)

It works for MS Word too, which also can convert words bracketede by
asterisks to bold and those bracketed by underlines (AmE =
underscores) to italic. But MS Word can't do microjustification.

What do mean by microjustification? I looked it up & it sounds like
just the normal variation of space width between lines to make the
ends line up vertically.

--
I don't want something better than coffee! I want coffee!
---Kathryn Janeway

charles

2024-09-13 14:45:02 UTC

Post by Steve Hayes
But if you are using the Ascii character set hyphens might be the
only thing available. Some word processing programs can convert
double hyphens to dashes.

I think it's LaTex where a double hyphen becomes an n-dash and a
triple hyphen becomes an m-dash. But I could be wrong, because I
haven't used it for a while.

Also plain TeX.

I haven't use TeX but can confirm it for LaTeX. (Now if PTD were here,
he'd butt in to tell us yet again how much he hates the default fonts.)

It works for MS Word too, which also can convert words bracketede by
asterisks to bold and those bracketed by underlines (AmE = underscores)
to italic. But MS Word can't do microjustification.

What do mean by microjustification? I looked it up & it sounds like just
the normal variation of space width between lines to make the ends line
up vertically.

but adjusting the spacing by very small amounts over the line so as to be
not obvious.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té²
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

Stefan Ram

2024-09-14 12:16:30 UTC

Post by charles
but adjusting the spacing by very small amounts over the line so as to be
not obvious.

The microtype package offers a LaTeX interface to the
microtypographic extensions that pdfTeX introduced, which
have since spread to XeTeX and LuaTeX as well. It

- tweaks the position of characters at line edges slightly
to achieve a more balanced look,

- subtly stretches or shrinks characters to improve line
breaks and spacing,

- refines the space between words and around punctuation,

- fine-tunes the spacing between certain letter pairs,

- allows enabling or disabling ligatures like "fi" or "fl", and

- adjusts the spacing between letters in words, which is
particularly useful for headings.

It's like the secret sauce that takes your document from okay to
looking like it was professionally typeset, without anyone being
able to put their finger on why it looks so good. Kind of like how
a splash of sriracha can elevate a dish without overpowering it.

Aidan Kehoe

2024-09-15 09:55:28 UTC

Post by Stefan Ram
The microtype package offers a LaTeX interface to the
microtypographic extensions that pdfTeX introduced, which
have since spread to XeTeX and LuaTeX as well. It
- tweaks the position of characters at line edges slightly
to achieve a more balanced look,
- subtly stretches or shrinks characters to improve line
breaks and spacing,
- refines the space between words and around punctuation,
- fine-tunes the spacing between certain letter pairs,
- allows enabling or disabling ligatures like "fi" or "fl", and
- adjusts the spacing between letters in words, which is
particularly useful for headings.
It's like the secret sauce that takes your document from okay to
looking like it was professionally typeset, without anyone being
able to put their finger on why it looks so good. Kind of like how
a splash of sriracha can elevate a dish without overpowering it.

Stefan, you’re almost writing English like a human again! Wonderful!

--
‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
(C. Moore)

Peter Moylan

2024-09-14 00:02:02 UTC

Post by Steve Hayes
It works for MS Word too, which also can convert words bracketede by
asterisks to bold and those bracketed by underlines (AmE =
underscores) to italic. But MS Word can't do microjustification.

What do mean by microjustification? I looked it up & it sounds like
just the normal variation of space width between lines to make the
ends line up vertically.

The "micro" part adjusts the space between characters as well.

--
Peter Moylan ***@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

Adam Funk

2024-09-16 11:30:43 UTC

What do mean by microjustification? I looked it up & it sounds like
just the normal variation of space width between lines to make the
ends line up vertically.

The "micro" part adjusts the space between characters as well.

Thanks --- that's what I needed to know.

--
I was born, lucky me, in a land that I love.
Though I'm poor, I am free.
When I grow I shall fight; for this land I shall die.
May the sun never set. ---The Kinks

Steve Hayes

2024-09-17 04:25:30 UTC

What do mean by microjustification? I looked it up & it sounds like
just the normal variation of space width between lines to make the
ends line up vertically.

The "micro" part adjusts the space between characters as well.

Thanks --- that's what I needed to know.

The "micro" part also means that it adjusts the space in smaller
increments than a whole space.

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

Steve Hayes

2024-09-15 04:15:30 UTC

What do mean by microjustification? I looked it up & it sounds like
just the normal variation of space width between lines to make the
ends line up vertically.

I'm talking about horzontal justification of left and right margins.

MS Word achieves right justification by adding whole spaces between
words, which ends up looking ugly, and documents produced in MS Word
look much better when produced with a ragged right margin.

Decent word processors, like the late lamented XyWrite, use
microjustification (which publishers' typesetters use) -- adding very
small spaces between words and individual letters of words to align
the right margin.

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

Snidely

2024-09-15 07:47:35 UTC

Steve Hayes asserted that:

[...]

Post by Steve Hayes
Decent word processors, like the late lamented XyWrite,

It really wanted to be WXyRite.

/dps

--
Trust, but verify.

Steve Hayes

2024-09-15 16:13:37 UTC

Post by Snidely
[...]

Post by Steve Hayes
Decent word processors, like the late lamented XyWrite,

It really wanted to be WXyRite.

For a while it became Signature, before IBM decided to get out of the
desktop computing business.

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

Kerr-Mudd, John

2024-09-15 17:30:44 UTC

On Sun, 15 Sep 2024 18:13:37 +0200

Post by Snidely
[...]

Post by Steve Hayes
Decent word processors, like the late lamented XyWrite,

You say late, but I can't find it on any abandonware site.

Post by Snidely
It really wanted to be WXyRite.

For a while it became Signature, before IBM decided to get out of the
desktop computing business.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

charles

2024-09-15 18:00:02 UTC

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On Sun, 15 Sep 2024 18:13:37 +0200

[...]

Post by Steve Hayes
Decent word processors, like the late lamented XyWrite,

You say late, but I can't find it on any abandonware site.

I use 'Ovation Pro' - originally written for RISC OS, but there is a
Windows version out there, too.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té²
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

Steve Hayes

2024-09-16 01:31:04 UTC

Post by charles

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On Sun, 15 Sep 2024 18:13:37 +0200

[...]

Post by Steve Hayes
Decent word processors, like the late lamented XyWrite,

You say late, but I can't find it on any abandonware site.

I use 'Ovation Pro' - originally written for RISC OS, but there is a
Windows version out there, too.

Does it do microjustification?

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

charles

2024-09-16 07:45:02 UTC

Post by charles

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On Sun, 15 Sep 2024 18:13:37 +0200

[...]

Post by Steve Hayes
Decent word processors, like the late lamented XyWrite,

You say late, but I can't find it on any abandonware site.

I use 'Ovation Pro' - originally written for RISC OS, but there is a
Windows version out there, too.

Does it do microjustification?

yes, certainly to my eyes.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té²
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

Steve Hayes

2024-09-16 01:30:10 UTC

On Sun, 15 Sep 2024 18:30:44 +0100, "Kerr-Mudd, John"

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On Sun, 15 Sep 2024 18:13:37 +0200

[...]

Post by Steve Hayes
Decent word processors, like the late lamented XyWrite,

You say late, but I can't find it on any abandonware site.

https://mendelson.org/xywin.html

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

Kerr-Mudd, John

2024-09-16 07:23:02 UTC

On Mon, 16 Sep 2024 03:30:10 +0200

Post by Steve Hayes
On Sun, 15 Sep 2024 18:30:44 +0100, "Kerr-Mudd, John"

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On Sun, 15 Sep 2024 18:13:37 +0200

[...]

Post by Steve Hayes
Decent word processors, like the late lamented XyWrite,

You say late, but I can't find it on any abandonware site.

https://mendelson.org/xywin.html

Thanks but I was looking at the praise for the DOS XyWrite III plus, no
matter.

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

Steve Hayes

2024-09-17 04:26:52 UTC

On Mon, 16 Sep 2024 08:23:02 +0100, "Kerr-Mudd, John"

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On Mon, 16 Sep 2024 03:30:10 +0200

Post by Steve Hayes
On Sun, 15 Sep 2024 18:30:44 +0100, "Kerr-Mudd, John"

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On Sun, 15 Sep 2024 18:13:37 +0200

[...]

Post by Steve Hayes
Decent word processors, like the late lamented XyWrite,

You say late, but I can't find it on any abandonware site.

https://mendelson.org/xywin.html

Thanks but I was looking at the praise for the DOS XyWrite III plus, no
matter.

Would you like me to email you a copy?

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

Kerr-Mudd, John

2024-09-17 08:37:30 UTC

On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 06:26:52 +0200

Post by Steve Hayes
On Mon, 16 Sep 2024 08:23:02 +0100, "Kerr-Mudd, John"

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On Mon, 16 Sep 2024 03:30:10 +0200

Post by Steve Hayes
On Sun, 15 Sep 2024 18:30:44 +0100, "Kerr-Mudd, John"

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On Sun, 15 Sep 2024 18:13:37 +0200

[...]

Post by Steve Hayes
Decent word processors, like the late lamented XyWrite,

You say late, but I can't find it on any abandonware site.

https://mendelson.org/xywin.html

Thanks but I was looking at the praise for the DOS XyWrite III plus, no
matter.

Would you like me to email you a copy?

Email request sent, TIA.

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

Adam Funk

2024-09-12 14:20:49 UTC

Post by Steve Hayes
But if you are using the Ascii character set hyphens might be the
only thing available. Some word processing programs can convert
double hyphens to dashes.

I think it's LaTex where a double hyphen becomes an n-dash and a triple
hyphen becomes an m-dash. But I could be wrong, because I haven't used
it for a while.

Also plain TeX.

I haven't use TeX but can confirm it for LaTeX. (Now if PTD were here,
he'd butt in to tell us yet again how much he hates the default
fonts.)

Post by Hibou
Or, in the old days, a typewriter. If the thing had spaces before and
after, it was a dash; if it hadn't, it was a hyphen.

That's still my criterion. I dislike the modern fashion for omitting the
spaces around a dash.

I dislike the modern fashion of putting spaces around a dash.

I'm on your side on this question.

So am I, but I thought it was British (except OUP) rather than modern
to use a spaced en-dash where American & OUP printing styles use an
em-dash.

--
One sometimes gets the impression that the mere words 'Socialism' and
'Communism' draw towards them with magnetic force every fruit-juice
drinker, nudist, sandal-wearer, sex-maniac, Quaker, 'Nature Cure'
quack, pacifist, and feminist in England. ---George Orwell

Steve Hayes

2024-09-12 02:14:42 UTC

Post by Steve Hayes
But if you are using the Ascii character set hyphens might be the
only thing available. Some word processing programs can convert
double hyphens to dashes.

I think it's LaTex where a double hyphen becomes an n-dash and a triple
hyphen becomes an m-dash. But I could be wrong, because I haven't used
it for a while.

Post by Hibou
Or, in the old days, a typewriter. If the thing had spaces before and
after, it was a dash; if it hadn't, it was a hyphen.

That's still my criterion. I dislike the modern fashion for omitting the
spaces around a dash.

I think the standard is a thin space. Omitting it altogether makes
searches difficult.

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

jerryfriedman

2024-09-12 17:57:27 UTC

[typewriter]