The Orange and the Green

[lar3ryca]

This morning in the shower, I happened to start singing (it's the only
place I do that. I don't want so frighten anyone).

The song I started singing was "The Orange and the Green", and I got to
wondering where I had first heard it, because the lyrics I remembered
(and was singing) were just a bit different than /The Irish Rovers/ version.

I did some googling, and some listening to various versions on YouTube,
but I never did find the line I was singing.

Does anyone here know of a version that goes:

"Oh, it is the biggest nose hole that you have ever seen
My father, he was orange, and me mother, she was green."

For that matter, is 'nose hole' or 'nosehole' ever used to mean a mix-up
in Ireland?

[Peter Moylan]

Post by lar3ryca
This morning in the shower, I happened to start singing (it's the
only place I do that. I don't want so frighten anyone).
The song I started singing was "The Orange and the Green", and I got
to wondering where I had first heard it, because the lyrics I
remembered (and was singing) were just a bit different than /The
Irish Rovers/ version.

Not the same song, but your post reminded me of "The Wearing of the
Green". I once read a short story, probably set in India, whose
principal character was singing "Dir hane madi yemen tu weri ala gee".
The narrator finally figures out that this "Indian" was of Irish
heritage. It's the sort of story Kipling might have written. Kipling did
write "Namgay Doola" about a red-headed troublemaker in the Himalayas.
It might or might not be the same story.

[LionelEdwards]

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by lar3ryca
This morning in the shower, I happened to start singing (it's the
only place I do that. I don't want so frighten anyone).
The song I started singing was "The Orange and the Green", and I got
to wondering where I had first heard it, because the lyrics I
remembered (and was singing) were just a bit different than /The
Irish Rovers/ version.

Not the same song, but your post reminded me of "The Wearing of the
Green". I once read a short story, probably set in India, whose
principal character was singing "Dir hane madi yemen tu weri ala gee".
The narrator finally figures out that this "Indian" was of Irish
heritage. It's the sort of story Kipling might have written. Kipling did
write "Namgay Doola" about a red-headed troublemaker in the Himalayas.
It might or might not be the same story.

A radio dramatisation of "Namgay Doolah" here from 1953:

"On the road to Tibet, many miles up in the Himalayas, is
a kingdom which is exactly 4 miles squared..."

<https://www.oldtimeradiodownloads.com/drama/family-theater/family-theater-53-03-11-309-namgay-doola>

I thought you might have been reminded of "The Wild
Colonial Boy" - set to the same tune?

[Peter Moylan]

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by lar3ryca
This morning in the shower, I happened to start singing (it's
the only place I do that. I don't want so frighten anyone).
The song I started singing was "The Orange and the Green", and I
got to wondering where I had first heard it, because the lyrics
I remembered (and was singing) were just a bit different than
/The Irish Rovers/ version.

Not the same song, but your post reminded me of "The Wearing of
the Green". I once read a short story, probably set in India,
whose principal character was singing "Dir hane madi yemen tu weri
ala gee". The narrator finally figures out that this "Indian" was
of Irish heritage. It's the sort of story Kipling might have
written. Kipling did write "Namgay Doola" about a red-headed
troublemaker in the Himalayas. It might or might not be the same
story.

On further investigation, I see that it probably was the same story.

"On the road to Tibet, many miles up in the Himalayas, is a kingdom
which is exactly 4 miles squared..."
<https://www.oldtimeradiodownloads.com/drama/family-theater/family-theater-53-03-11-309-namgay-doola>
I thought you might have been reminded of "The Wild Colonial Boy" -
set to the same tune?

"The Wild Colonial Boy" was a favourite of my grandfather's. Not the
same tune, in the versions I know, but I gather that "The Wearing of the
Green" is known in multiple versions, which might have different tunes.

[lar3ryca]

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by lar3ryca
This morning in the shower, I happened to start singing (it's
the only place I do that. I don't want so frighten anyone).
The song I started singing was "The Orange and the Green", and I
got to wondering where I had first heard it, because the lyrics
I remembered (and was singing) were just a bit different than
/The Irish Rovers/ version.

Not the same song, but your post reminded me of "The Wearing of
the Green". I once read a short story, probably set in India,
whose principal character was singing "Dir hane madi yemen tu weri
ala gee". The narrator finally figures out that this "Indian" was
of Irish heritage. It's the sort of story Kipling might have
written. Kipling did write "Namgay Doola" about a red-headed
troublemaker in the Himalayas. It might or might not be the same
story.

On further investigation, I see that it probably was the same story.

"On the road to Tibet, many miles up in the Himalayas, is a kingdom
which is exactly 4 miles squared..."
<https://www.oldtimeradiodownloads.com/drama/family-theater/family-theater-53-03-11-309-namgay-doola>
I thought you might have been reminded of "The Wild Colonial Boy" -
set to the same tune?

"The Wild Colonial Boy" was a favourite of my grandfather's. Not the
same tune, in the versions I know, but I gather that "The Wearing of the
Green" is known in multiple versions, which might have different tunes.

I wondered about that. The Irish Rovers version I listened to did not
have the same tune.

[Peter Moylan]

Post by Peter Moylan
"The Wild Colonial Boy" was a favourite of my grandfather's.

A possible reason: that grandfather was born 40 km south of Castlemaine,
the birthplace of the bushranger Jack Doolan, the subject of the poem
"The Wild Colonial Boy". (Which was turned into a song in 1880 or
thereabouts.) By the end of the century, the activity of bushrangers
would have been hot topics.

[Peter Moylan]

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by Peter Moylan
"The Wild Colonial Boy" was a favourite of my grandfather's.

A possible reason: that grandfather was born 40 km south of
Castlemaine, the birthplace of the bushranger Jack Doolan, the
subject of the poem "The Wild Colonial Boy". (Which was turned into a
song in 1880 or thereabouts.) By the end of the century, the activity
of bushrangers would have been hot topics.

It was only a year or two ago that it suddenly hit me that initially
none of my grandparents was an Australian citizen. There weren't any
Australian citizens at the time. They lived in the Colony of Victoria,
and I think they were technically British Subjects.

I think they were eventually declared Australian citizens, some time in
the 20th century, via a grandfather clause that also applied to
grandmothers.

[LionelEdwards]

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by Peter Moylan
"The Wild Colonial Boy" was a favourite of my grandfather's.

A possible reason: that grandfather was born 40 km south of Castlemaine,
the birthplace of the bushranger Jack Doolan, the subject of the poem
"The Wild Colonial Boy". (Which was turned into a song in 1880 or
thereabouts.) By the end of the century, the activity of bushrangers
would have been hot topics.

Assuming it is that Castlemaine (rather than the
Irish Castlemaine some versions seem to prefer), we
Brits are grateful to the town for brightening up
the 80s:

The competition had these. I wonder if anybody
outside of London understands "Cockfosters"?

[Peter Moylan]

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by Peter Moylan
"The Wild Colonial Boy" was a favourite of my grandfather's.

A possible reason: that grandfather was born 40 km south of
Castlemaine, the birthplace of the bushranger Jack Doolan, the
subject of the poem "The Wild Colonial Boy". (Which was turned into
a song in 1880 or thereabouts.) By the end of the century, the
activity of bushrangers would have been hot topics.

Assuming it is that Castlemaine (rather than the Irish Castlemaine
some versions seem to prefer),

I have no doubt that it was the Castlemaine in Victoria, because the
author was Banjo Paterson, one of the best-known Australian poets.
Furthermore, Doolan was indeed born in that Castlemaine. The poem was
about genuine historical events. (Quite recent events, at the time it
was written.) As far as I know, all versions of the song are taken from
the same poem.

http://youtu.be/RMRy8bjdohs
The competition had these. I wonder if anybody outside of London
understands "Cockfosters"?
http://youtu.be/cT40V_42GO0

[LionelEdwards]

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by Peter Moylan
"The Wild Colonial Boy" was a favourite of my grandfather's.

A possible reason: that grandfather was born 40 km south of
Castlemaine, the birthplace of the bushranger Jack Doolan, the
subject of the poem "The Wild Colonial Boy". (Which was turned into
a song in 1880 or thereabouts.) By the end of the century, the
activity of bushrangers would have been hot topics.

Assuming it is that Castlemaine (rather than the Irish Castlemaine
some versions seem to prefer),

I have no doubt that it was the Castlemaine in Victoria, because the
author was Banjo Paterson, one of the best-known Australian poets.
Furthermore, Doolan was indeed born in that Castlemaine. The poem was
about genuine historical events. (Quite recent events, at the time it
was written.) As far as I know, all versions of the song are taken from
the same poem.

"If you ever want to start a fight in a roomful of Australian
ballad researchers, just mention this song. Some believe its
roots lie in a rewrite of Bold Jack Donohoe, others that it's
Jack Doolan, an entirely different 19th Century bushranger,
who the song has in mind."

<http://www.planetslade.com/bushranger-ballads-wild-colonial-boy.html>

Evidence for it being Jack Donahoe rather than John Doolan
comes from Banjo Paterson himself.

<https://allpoetry.com/poem/14373849-Bold-Jack-Donahoo-by-A-B-Banjo-Paterson>

"In Dublin town I was brought up, in that city of great fame
My decent friends and parents, they will tell to you the same.
It was for the sake of five hundred pounds I was sent across the main,
For seven long years, in New South Wales, to wear a convict's chain...

[Peter Moylan]

Post by LionelEdwards

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by Peter Moylan
"The Wild Colonial Boy" was a favourite of my grandfather's.

A possible reason: that grandfather was born 40 km south of
Castlemaine, the birthplace of the bushranger Jack Doolan, the
subject of the poem "The Wild Colonial Boy". (Which was turned into
a song in 1880 or thereabouts.) By the end of the century, the
activity of bushrangers would have been hot topics.

Assuming it is that Castlemaine (rather than the Irish Castlemaine
some versions seem to prefer),

I have no doubt that it was the Castlemaine in Victoria, because the
author was Banjo Paterson, one of the best-known Australian poets.
Furthermore, Doolan was indeed born in that Castlemaine. The poem was
about genuine historical events. (Quite recent events, at the time it
was written.) As far as I know, all versions of the song are taken from
the same poem.

"If you ever want to start a fight in a roomful of Australian
ballad researchers, just mention this song. Some believe its
roots lie in a rewrite of Bold Jack Donohoe, others that it's
Jack Doolan, an entirely different 19th Century bushranger,
who the song has in mind."
<http://www.planetslade.com/bushranger-ballads-wild-colonial-boy.html>
Evidence for it being Jack Donahoe rather than John Doolan
comes from Banjo Paterson himself.
<https://allpoetry.com/poem/14373849-Bold-Jack-Donahoo-by-A-B-Banjo-Paterson>
"In Dublin town I was brought up, in that city of great fame
My decent friends and parents, they will tell to you the same.
It was for the sake of five hundred pounds I was sent across the main,
For seven long years, in New South Wales, to wear a convict's chain...

Oh, yes, it's clear that there were two different poems about two
different bushrangers, and looking at the scansion I see that it's
possible to set them both to the same tune. The question in my mind is
which song ended up with the name "The Wild Colonial Boy". Surely it has
to be the poem with the title "The Wild Colonial Boy", and most singers
seem to agree.

I'll have to take me to UTube to check the exceptions.

[Steve Hayes]

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by lar3ryca
This morning in the shower, I happened to start singing (it's the
only place I do that. I don't want so frighten anyone).
The song I started singing was "The Orange and the Green", and I got
to wondering where I had first heard it, because the lyrics I
remembered (and was singing) were just a bit different than /The
Irish Rovers/ version.

Not the same song, but your post reminded me of "The Wearing of the
Green". I once read a short story, probably set in India, whose
principal character was singing "Dir hane madi yemen tu weri ala gee".
The narrator finally figures out that this "Indian" was of Irish
heritage. It's the sort of story Kipling might have written. Kipling did
write "Namgay Doola" about a red-headed troublemaker in the Himalayas.
It might or might not be the same story.

It calls to mind somethin Kipling did write:

"Thy father was a pastry-cook
Thy mother stole the ghee."