Graduations

[Peter Moylan]

I have never been happy with the practice of some schools of referring
to the departure of year 12 pupils as "graduation", although I can see
some justification for the term. I recall my own school leaving as a
major event in my life, even if we didn't have a ceremony to mark it.

Now I've just received an invitation from a Day Care centre to attend on
the occasion of the graduation of my 4-year-old granddaughter. It's not
even a school.

[Snidely]

Post by Peter Moylan
I have never been happy with the practice of some schools of referring
to the departure of year 12 pupils as "graduation", although I can see
some justification for the term. I recall my own school leaving as a
major event in my life, even if we didn't have a ceremony to mark it.
Now I've just received an invitation from a Day Care centre to attend on
the occasion of the graduation of my 4-year-old granddaughter. It's not
even a school.

It's all to scale, innit?

/dps

[occam]

Post by Peter Moylan
I have never been happy with the practice of some schools of referring
to the departure of year 12 pupils as "graduation", although I can see
some justification for the term. I recall my own school leaving as a
major event in my life, even if we didn't have a ceremony to mark it.

My son was a COVID graduate from Glasgow U. That meant no ceremony
either, due to the pandemic. I'm not sure if the ceremony is a necessary
part of the process, is it?

'Graduation' normally comes down to a piece of paper being handed over.
In the case of Glasgow U. it was an email, with an unceremonious
attachment.

Post by Peter Moylan
Now I've just received an invitation from a Day Care centre to attend on
the occasion of the graduation of my 4-year-old granddaughter. It's not
even a school.

[Steve Hayes]

Post by occam

Post by Peter Moylan
I have never been happy with the practice of some schools of referring
to the departure of year 12 pupils as "graduation", although I can see
some justification for the term. I recall my own school leaving as a
major event in my life, even if we didn't have a ceremony to mark it.

My son was a COVID graduate from Glasgow U. That meant no ceremony
either, due to the pandemic. I'm not sure if the ceremony is a necessary
part of the process, is it?
'Graduation' normally comes down to a piece of paper being handed over.
In the case of Glasgow U. it was an email, with an unceremonious
attachment.

My first two graduations were "in absentia" (one because I'd had to
skip the country because the police were after me), so I hired the tat
for the next two just to see what it was like, and was able to do so
because by then I was working for the institution that issued the
degree certificates, so the event was easy to get to.

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Post by Peter Moylan
I have never been happy with the practice of some schools of referring
to the departure of year 12 pupils as "graduation", although I can see
some justification for the term.

In my time the gymnasiums (high schools) called that "dimission". The 1
through 9 grade schools didn't call it anything, but those pupils
leaving after 10. grade, did (and do) celebrate it.

Post by Peter Moylan
I recall my own school leaving as a major event in my life, even if we
didn't have a ceremony to mark it.

It's an old tradition in Denmark. The students leaving gymnaium and
similar institutions are driving from parents' house to parents' house
and have drinks at each place. In my time we rode horse-driven carriage
and had only our voices to make noise with. Today they will ride lorries
and have compressor horns and loud boomboxes.

Post by Peter Moylan
Now I've just received an invitation from a Day Care centre to attend on
the occasion of the graduation of my 4-year-old granddaughter. It's not
even a school.

Have you prepared your "Now that you have become a grown-up"-speech?

[Janet]

Post by Peter Moylan
I have never been happy with the practice of some schools of referring
to the departure of year 12 pupils as "graduation", although I can see
some justification for the term. I recall my own school leaving as a
major event in my life, even if we didn't have a ceremony to mark it.

On our last day of school we all went down to the river
and threw in our straw boaters (hated school uniform hat).

Post by Peter Moylan
Now I've just received an invitation from a Day Care centre to attend on
the occasion of the graduation of my 4-year-old granddaughter. It's not
even a school.

Here, they dress the infants up in an academic cap and
gown and give them a certificate. Despite many of the
little graduates not being "school ready", eg, toilet
trained.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp3dykw576yo

At the other end of education there are university
"graduates" lacking the social skills needed for
employment

https://pace.campusesp.com/posts/1008.

Janet UK

[jerryfriedman]

Post by Janet

Post by Peter Moylan
I have never been happy with the practice of some schools of referring
to the departure of year 12 pupils as "graduation", although I can see
some justification for the term. I recall my own school leaving as a
major event in my life, even if we didn't have a ceremony to mark it.

On our last day of school we all went down to the river
and threw in our straw boaters (hated school uniform hat).

..

Whatever floats your boater.

--
Jerry Friedman

--

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Janet

Post by Peter Moylan
I have never been happy with the practice of some schools of referring
to the departure of year 12 pupils as "graduation", although I can see
some justification for the term. I recall my own school leaving as a
major event in my life, even if we didn't have a ceremony to mark it.

On our last day of school we all went down to the river
and threw in our straw boaters (hated school uniform hat).

There was no special ceremony on the last day. However, we did go down
to the river (Severn) to watch or participate in an event called
up-river swimming. We did't swim up river, but we walked up river to a
suitable starting point about 1 km from the boathouse and then race
down river to there. I won it in three successive years, not because I
was the best swimmer (I wasn't), but because the best swimmers didn't
fancy a race in cold water of unknown hygienic quality. We didn't have
boaters, but on the last occasion I wore a rubber cap for the race and
on arriving at the finish I took it off and threw it in the river,
never to see it again. I've always felt ashamed of that last point,
because I'm not usually the sort of chap who throws rubbish into the
natural evironment, but no one made any comment.

Post by jerryfriedman
..
Whatever floats your boater.
--
Jerry Friedman

[Sam Plusnet]

Post by Janet

Post by Peter Moylan
I have never been happy with the practice of some schools of referring
to the departure of year 12 pupils as "graduation", although I can see
some justification for the term. I recall my own school leaving as a
major event in my life, even if we didn't have a ceremony to mark it.

On our last day of school we all went down to the river
and threw in our straw boaters (hated school uniform hat).

Post by Peter Moylan
Now I've just received an invitation from a Day Care centre to attend on
the occasion of the graduation of my 4-year-old granddaughter. It's not
even a school.

Here, they dress the infants up in an academic cap and
gown and give them a certificate. Despite many of the
little graduates not being "school ready", eg, toilet
trained.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp3dykw576yo
At the other end of education there are university
"graduates" lacking the social skills needed for
employment

And still not toilet trained?

[Peter Moylan]

At the other end of education there are university "graduates"
lacking the social skills needed for employment

When I was an academic we used to worry about the students who scored
50% in every subject. (Sometimes after repeating the subject.) "This
person is going to get a piece of paper saying he's a qualified
engineer. Shouldn't we warn the world that he's not competent?"

When one such student asked me for a reference, I was tempted to write
"He is the sort of person who gets everything half right". In the end I
didn't write anything, but advised him to get a reference from someone
who knew him less well.

At one stage the Engineering Faculty introduced a sort of "running
average" system where we tracked a student's average performance over
all subjects, and expelled him if the average fell below 55%. This ran
well for a number of years, but then the university ruled that, because
of a policy called "equality of esteem" we could not set higher
standards than were used for the basket-weaving degrees.

[Rich Ulrich]

Post by Peter Moylan

At the other end of education there are university "graduates"
lacking the social skills needed for employment

When I was an academic we used to worry about the students who scored
50% in every subject. (Sometimes after repeating the subject.) "This
person is going to get a piece of paper saying he's a qualified
engineer. Shouldn't we warn the world that he's not competent?"

1965 - my dorm roommate was a student in engineering (U. of Texas,
Austin), which was reputed to be fairly rigorous.

He described to me a dual system of grading in (some?) classes --
Answers could get partial credit, so an overall score could be
"passing" on homework or a test. However, to pass the course
at the end, a student also needed a certain number of answers
that were "completely correct". Made sense to me.

I never heard of that elsewhere

Post by Peter Moylan
When one such student asked me for a reference, I was tempted to write
"He is the sort of person who gets everything half right". In the end I
didn't write anything, but advised him to get a reference from someone
who knew him less well.
At one stage the Engineering Faculty introduced a sort of "running
average" system where we tracked a student's average performance over
all subjects, and expelled him if the average fell below 55%. This ran
well for a number of years, but then the university ruled that, because
of a policy called "equality of esteem" we could not set higher
standards than were used for the basket-weaving degrees.

Grade inflation/whatever is problematic in US schools, so I've heard.

But I want to mention, "the average fell beloww 55%" -- that's a
cutoff I've never heard for US schools. As a data analyst/
statistician, I know that cutoff scores essentially are arbitrary.
And it seems stupid to manipulate problem-difficulty, etc., to
get students to score with a given distribution. But I only ever
had a couple of classes that "graded on the curve" with the
professor deciding an arbitrary cutoff for A / B / C / D / F/
instead of using 60-70-80-90. Sometimes D is "passing,"
sometimes not.

In my time in school, many teachers had thoroughly internalized
the standard. It worked for them and they didn't imagine doing
it differently. That is, they always gave enough 'easy' questions
so that the miss-able questions split the scores from 60 to 100.

But it sounds like you have a different philosophical problem.
Your administration does not want you to FAIL people, period.
Or, too many of them.

At UT, a couple of courses were known for flunking students,
and it was acceptable and accepted. There were suggestions,
for instance, that a "simpler" version of biology should be
offered so that non-science types would not be scared off or
flunked out. The Bio department pointed out that the greater
number of their eventual biology majors took the course as an
optional science, NOT as the start to majoring in it -- if they
had taken a "non-majors" version of the course (which existed
for some subjects), it would be a wasted course for the major
and therefore lose many of those prospective students as
eventual majors.

[Peter Moylan]

Post by Rich Ulrich

Post by Peter Moylan
At one stage the Engineering Faculty introduced a sort of "running
average" system where we tracked a student's average performance
over all subjects, and expelled him if the average fell below 55%.
This ran well for a number of years, but then the university ruled
that, because of a policy called "equality of esteem" we could not
set higher standards than were used for the basket-weaving
degrees.

Grade inflation/whatever is problematic in US schools, so I've heard.
But I want to mention, "the average fell beloww 55%" -- that's a
cutoff I've never heard for US schools.

The cutoff for each *subject* continued to be 50%, although a "conceded
pass" was sometimes awarded for a subject score as low as 45%; if it was
clear that a student's performance was good in most subjects, then an
isolated bad result could be forgiven. That 55% threshold was for the
average over all subjects taken so far.

Post by Rich Ulrich
As a data analyst/statistician, I know that cutoff scores essentially
are arbitrary. And it seems stupid to manipulate problem-difficulty,
etc., to get students to score with a given distribution. But I only
ever had a couple of classes that "graded on the curve" with the
professor deciding an arbitrary cutoff for A / B / C / D / F/ instead
of using 60-70-80-90. Sometimes D is "passing," sometimes not.
In my time in school, many teachers had thoroughly internalized the
standard. It worked for them and they didn't imagine doing it
differently. That is, they always gave enough 'easy' questions so
that the miss-able questions split the scores from 60 to 100.

After a bit of experience in setting and grading exams one unconsciously
grades to a curve, not by adjusting the scores but by setting exams that
experience shows will be passable by all except the dummies, at the same
time letting the better students get high scores.

The argument against adjusting scores to fit a desired distribution is
that one also learns by experience that student quality varies from year
to year -- typically because of fluctuations in entry thresholds -- and
if the average mark is lower that in the same subject year ago, that's
because that batch of students deserved a lower mark.

Post by Rich Ulrich
But it sounds like you have a different philosophical problem. Your
administration does not want you to FAIL people, period. Or, too many
of them.

Well, yes and no. In that case the administration didn't want to admit
that some degree courses are tougher than others.

But there was also political pressure to improve "productivity", which
the politicians defined as pass rates. I recall one year where we were
forced to increase the pass rate in first year subjects. The result was
a disastrously bad failure rate in second year subjects the following
year. Following that, we let the politicians know that we weren't
willing to drop our standards.

Engineering, along with a few other disciplines, is special in that the
degrees are accredited by independent external bodies. We had to make
the point that if we lost our accreditation then that would be a black
mark against the university as a whole.

[Rich Ulrich]

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by Rich Ulrich

Post by Peter Moylan
At one stage the Engineering Faculty introduced a sort of "running
average" system where we tracked a student's average performance
over all subjects, and expelled him if the average fell below 55%.
This ran well for a number of years, but then the university ruled
that, because of a policy called "equality of esteem" we could not
set higher standards than were used for the basket-weaving
degrees.

Grade inflation/whatever is problematic in US schools, so I've heard.
But I want to mention, "the average fell beloww 55%" -- that's a
cutoff I've never heard for US schools.

The cutoff for each *subject* continued to be 50%, although a "conceded
pass" was sometimes awarded for a subject score as low as 45%; if it was
clear that a student's performance was good in most subjects, then an
isolated bad result could be forgiven. That 55% threshold was for the
average over all subjects taken so far.

My impression is that the overall *GPA* 'might' matter for some
graduate schools. And probably matters for some scholarships, for
undergrads.

But GPA is derived on a 0-3 or 0-4 score for each class, and never
on the performance on a 'subject score' that was a percentage that
was communicated to anyone. (However, I did mention that engineers
at UT had special requirements.)

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by Rich Ulrich
As a data analyst/statistician, I know that cutoff scores essentially
are arbitrary. And it seems stupid to manipulate problem-difficulty,
etc., to get students to score with a given distribution. But I only
ever had a couple of classes that "graded on the curve" with the
professor deciding an arbitrary cutoff for A / B / C / D / F/ instead
of using 60-70-80-90. Sometimes D is "passing," sometimes not.
In my time in school, many teachers had thoroughly internalized the
standard. It worked for them and they didn't imagine doing it
differently. That is, they always gave enough 'easy' questions so
that the miss-able questions split the scores from 60 to 100.

After a bit of experience in setting and grading exams one unconsciously
grades to a curve, not by adjusting the scores but by setting exams that
experience shows will be passable by all except the dummies, at the same
time letting the better students get high scores.
The argument against adjusting scores to fit a desired distribution is
that one also learns by experience that student quality varies from year
to year -- typically because of fluctuations in entry thresholds -- and
if the average mark is lower that in the same subject year ago, that's
because that batch of students deserved a lower mark.

I heard in my own student days about one particular professor who
gave most of his students in one class, one year, A's and B's,
claiming it was on merit. And he got away with it. But it was talked
about.

A fixed cutoff on average scores should not be the only criterion.
Look at the ranked scores, and decide what cutoffs fit this class.
Look at crude averages, sorted in order, and note the clusters and
gaps -- People in the same cluster deserved the same letter-score.


Even if you have a few hundred students in the same course with
the same homework and tests (even if in separate classes), using
percentile cutoffs that are FIXED might not adapt to drifts in the
students choosing a particular curriculum.

Using percentile cutoffs frees the teacher from a constraint of
providing 'easy' questions so that the total score ranges from 1
to 100. I have a vague thought of someone giving scores that
ran (say) from 50 to 100 on a test: 10 questions, 5 points
subtracted for each miss -- NOT the tradtional "percent correct".
I think that must have been a one-shot deal, maybe a failed
experiment, because I don't remember more than one example.

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by Rich Ulrich
But it sounds like you have a different philosophical problem. Your
administration does not want you to FAIL people, period. Or, too many
of them.

Well, yes and no. In that case the administration didn't want to admit
that some degree courses are tougher than others.
But there was also political pressure to improve "productivity", which
the politicians defined as pass rates. I recall one year where we were
forced to increase the pass rate in first year subjects. The result was
a disastrously bad failure rate in second year subjects the following
year. Following that, we let the politicians know that we weren't
willing to drop our standards.

Good. But they wouldn't take your word for it at the start.

Post by Peter Moylan
Engineering, along with a few other disciplines, is special in that the
degrees are accredited by independent external bodies. We had to make
the point that if we lost our accreditation then that would be a black
mark against the university as a whole.

[Steve Hayes]

Post by Janet

Post by Peter Moylan
I have never been happy with the practice of some schools of referring
to the departure of year 12 pupils as "graduation", although I can see
some justification for the term. I recall my own school leaving as a
major event in my life, even if we didn't have a ceremony to mark it.

On our last day of school we all went down to the river
and threw in our straw boaters (hated school uniform hat).

In the block of flats where I once lived the little girl next door
(also called Janet) came home on her last day of primary school with
her dress cut to ribbons -- they attacked them with scissors.

But when my kids finished primary school their uniforms went to the
"thrift shop" where they could be bought by parents who could not
afford new ones for their kids.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Post by Steve Hayes

Post by Janet

Post by Peter Moylan
I have never been happy with the practice of some schools of referring
to the departure of year 12 pupils as "graduation", although I can see
some justification for the term. I recall my own school leaving as a
major event in my life, even if we didn't have a ceremony to mark it.

On our last day of school we all went down to the river
and threw in our straw boaters (hated school uniform hat).

In the block of flats where I once lived the little girl next door
(also called Janet) came home on her last day of primary school with
her dress cut to ribbons -- they attacked them with scissors.
But when my kids finished primary school their uniforms went to the
"thrift shop" where they could be bought by parents who could not
afford new ones for their kids.

When my wife was first in England she saw a dress she liked in a shop
window in Totnes. The price tag said 30p and, thinking that meant £30
she thought it was a very reasonable price, and so she went in to buy
it. On going to pay she was amazed to find that she'd overestimated the
price by a factor of 10. Only later did she realize (or someone told
her) that it was a charity shop. (In Chile some quite ordinary shops
can look to British eyes like charity shops.) She wore that dress for
at least ten years.

[Silvano]

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
When my wife was first in England she saw a dress she liked in a shop
window in Totnes. The price tag said 30p and, thinking that meant £30
she thought it was a very reasonable price, and so she went in to buy
it. On going to pay she was amazed to find that she'd overestimated the
price by a factor of 10.

Actually it's a factor of 100. How many pence are there in a pound since
you went decimal?

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Post by Silvano

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
When my wife was first in England she saw a dress she liked in a shop
window in Totnes. The price tag said 30p and, thinking that meant £30
she thought it was a very reasonable price, and so she went in to buy
it. On going to pay she was amazed to find that she'd overestimated the
price by a factor of 10.

Actually it's a factor of 100. How many pence are there in a pound since
you went decimal?

Yes, you're right. I originally wrote 30/-, i.e. 30 shillings, but then
I realized that that had to be wrong as this was in 1982, when
shillings had not been used for a decade. I then corrected it but
forgot to correct the factor of 10. I was planning to confess the error
myself, but you beat me to it.

[Silvano]

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by Silvano

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
When my wife was first in England she saw a dress she liked in a shop
window in Totnes. The price tag said 30p and, thinking that meant £30
she thought it was a very reasonable price, and so she went in to buy
it. On going to pay she was amazed to find that she'd overestimated the
price by a factor of 10.

Actually it's a factor of 100. How many pence are there in a pound since
you went decimal?

Yes, you're right. I originally wrote 30/-, i.e. 30 shillings, but then
I realized that that had to be wrong as this was in 1982, when shillings
had not been used for a decade. I then corrected it but forgot to
correct the factor of 10. I was planning to confess the error myself,
but you beat me to it.

Sorry for beating you to that, but even in that case it would have been
a factor of 20, IIRC how many shillings were in a pound.

Has the guinea completely disappeared?

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Post by Silvano

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by Silvano

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
When my wife was first in England she saw a dress she liked in a shop
window in Totnes. The price tag said 30p and, thinking that meant £30
she thought it was a very reasonable price, and so she went in to buy
it. On going to pay she was amazed to find that she'd overestimated the
price by a factor of 10.

Actually it's a factor of 100. How many pence are there in a pound since
you went decimal?

Yes, you're right. I originally wrote 30/-, i.e. 30 shillings, but then
I realized that that had to be wrong as this was in 1982, when shillings
had not been used for a decade. I then corrected it but forgot to
correct the factor of 10. I was planning to confess the error myself,
but you beat me to it.

Sorry for beating you to that, but even in that case it would have been
a factor of 20, IIRC how many shillings were in a pound.

Oh dear. Put it down to creeping senility. You're right about that too.

Post by Silvano
Has the guinea completely disappeared?

Probably. In about 1975 (after decimalization) I was the external
examiner of a D.Phil. thesis in Oxford. The honorarium was £15.75,
which seemed to a very strange sum until I converted it to guineas. (In
France the usual honorarium for such a task is 0.00€.)

[Aidan Kehoe]

[...] Has the guinea completely disappeared?

It was around in my youth in Ireland pre-Euro. I believe it is still around in
the UK in the same contexts it was in Ireland; horse-racing, auctions for
thoroughbred animals, sometimes other auctions. The auctioneer keeps the 5% as
commission.

[Janet]

Post by Steve Hayes

Post by Janet

Post by Peter Moylan
I have never been happy with the practice of some schools of referring
to the departure of year 12 pupils as "graduation", although I can see
some justification for the term. I recall my own school leaving as a
major event in my life, even if we didn't have a ceremony to mark it.

On our last day of school we all went down to the river
and threw in our straw boaters (hated school uniform hat).

In the block of flats where I once lived the little girl next door
(also called Janet) came home on her last day of primary school with
her dress cut to ribbons -- they attacked them with
scissors.

My son and daughter in law attended a friend's week-long
wedding extravaganza abroad, for which the bride had
commissioned two identical wedding dresses made to
measure, each cost thousands.

The day after the wedding, she wore one of them to the
beach for a ceremony involving all the guests called
"trash the dress". Its virginal twin is preserved for
posterity.


Janet

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Post by Janet
My son and daughter in law attended a friend's week-long
wedding extravaganza abroad, for which the bride had
commissioned two identical wedding dresses made to
measure, each cost thousands.
The day after the wedding, she wore one of them to the
beach for a ceremony involving all the guests called
"trash the dress". Its virginal twin is preserved for
posterity.

I haven't met such expensive rituals in Denmark. In fact I knew nothing
about what people would do to a wedding until my friend was married when
I was about 50. The male guests at some point took hold of him and cut
off the front part of his socks. The bride was later encouraged to show
her thigh with a band around.

I think that some Danes have adopted the British idea with borrowed,
blue, old, new, but it was unknown when I was a child.

[jerryfriedman]

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by Janet
My son and daughter in law attended a friend's week-long
wedding extravaganza abroad, for which the bride had
commissioned two identical wedding dresses made to
measure, each cost thousands.
The day after the wedding, she wore one of them to the
beach for a ceremony involving all the guests called
"trash the dress". Its virginal twin is preserved for
posterity.

Humans are weird.

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen
I haven't met such expensive rituals in Denmark. In fact I knew nothing
about what people would do to a wedding until my friend was married when
I was about 50. The male guests at some point took hold of him and cut
off the front part of his socks.

That's new to me. What's the point, to get him
started on undressing?

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen
The bride was later encouraged to show
her thigh with a band around.

..

So the groom could remove it and the bride could
throw it to the single female guests, some of whom
would try to catch it and some of whom wouldn't?
That happens at some American weddings. The one who
catches the "garter" is supposedly the next one to
be married.

--
Jerry Friedman

--

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Post by jerryfriedman
Humans are weird.

Indeed.

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen
I haven't met such expensive rituals in Denmark. In fact I knew nothing
about what people would do to a wedding until my friend was married when
I was about 50. The male guests at some point took hold of him and cut
off the front part of his socks.

That's new to me. What's the point, to get him
started on undressing?

No. There was no follow-up.

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen
The bride was later encouraged to show
her thigh with a band around.

..
So the groom could remove it and the bride could
throw it to the single female guests, some of whom
would try to catch it and some of whom wouldn't?
That happens at some American weddings. The one who
catches the "garter" is supposedly the next one to
be married.

No. She just showed it and got an applause. Then she lowered her dress
again and sat down. There were no other rituals. But it wouldn't
surprise me if at other weddings the garter was thrown and caught. I
think that it happens with the bouquet.

[jerryfriedman]

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by jerryfriedman
Humans are weird.

Indeed.

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen
I haven't met such expensive rituals in Denmark. In fact I knew nothing
about what people would do to a wedding until my friend was married when
I was about 50. The male guests at some point took hold of him and cut
off the front part of his socks.

That's new to me. What's the point, to get him
started on undressing?

No. There was no follow-up.

Well, he must have undressed sometime later.

But "Apparently it is for the guy to see how good his
new wife is at sewing."

https://hejsonderborg.dk/danish-wedding-traditions

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen
The bride was later encouraged to show
her thigh with a band around.

..
So the groom could remove it and the bride could
throw it to the single female guests, some of whom
would try to catch it and some of whom wouldn't?
That happens at some American weddings. The one who
catches the "garter" is supposedly the next one to
be married.

No. She just showed it and got an applause.

"Got applause" or "got a round of applause".

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen
Then she lowered her dress
again and sat down. There were no other rituals. But it wouldn't
surprise me if at other weddings the garter was thrown and caught. I
think that it happens with the bouquet.

Oops, I got it backwards. The bouquet is thrown to
women and the garter is thrown to men.

--
Jerry Friedman

--

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen
I haven't met such expensive rituals in Denmark. In fact I knew nothing
about what people would do to a wedding until my friend was married when
I was about 50. The male guests at some point took hold of him and cut
off the front part of his socks.

That's new to me. What's the point, to get him
started on undressing?

No. There was no follow-up.

Well, he must have undressed sometime later.

Sure, but not in the party room.

Post by jerryfriedman
But "Apparently it is for the guy to see how good his
new wife is at sewing."

Wife repairing socks? What a laugh. The socks would end in the garbage
bin (or be kept as souvenir).

[jerryfriedman]

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen
I haven't met such expensive rituals in Denmark. In fact I knew nothing
about what people would do to a wedding until my friend was married when
I was about 50. The male guests at some point took hold of him and cut
off the front part of his socks.

That's new to me. What's the point, to get him
started on undressing?

No. There was no follow-up.

Well, he must have undressed sometime later.

Sure, but not in the party room.

As I imagined it, it would by symbolic of what's to
come. When the bride and groom kiss each other under
the table (according to that blog post I quoted), it
resembles what they're going to do in the bedroom but
doesn't continue right away.

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by jerryfriedman
But "Apparently it is for the guy to see how good his
new wife is at sewing."

Wife repairing socks? What a laugh. The socks would end in the garbage
bin (or be kept as souvenir).

What's the front part, by the way? I imagined it as
the part covering his shins, which could be cut off
without taking his shoes off, but now I'm wondering
whether you mean the part that covers his feet.

--
Jerry Friedman

--

[musika]

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen
I haven't met such expensive rituals in Denmark. In fact I knew nothing
about what people would do to a wedding until my friend was married when
I was about 50. The male guests at some point took hold of him and cut
off the front part of his socks.

What's the front part, by the way?  I imagined it as
the part covering his shins, which could be cut off
without taking his shoes off, but now I'm wondering
whether you mean the part that covers his feet.

The toes, I believe.

[jerryfriedman]

Post by musika

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen
I haven't met such expensive rituals in Denmark. In fact I knew nothing
about what people would do to a wedding until my friend was married when
I was about 50. The male guests at some point took hold of him and cut
off the front part of his socks.

What's the front part, by the way?  I imagined it as
the part covering his shins, which could be cut off
without taking his shoes off, but now I'm wondering
whether you mean the part that covers his feet.

The toes, I believe.

Thanks to you and Bertel.

--
Jerry Friedman

--

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Post by jerryfriedman
What's the front part, by the way?

The part that covers his toes.

[Rich Ulrich]

On Thu, 28 Nov 2024 20:08:40 +0100, Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by jerryfriedman
What's the front part, by the way?

The part that covers his toes.

Curious. It didn't occur to me to apply the spatial metaphor
to socks that way. If I were talking about the toes, I would simply
say "the toes".

Perhaps the toes are "the front" if I look at a pair stretched
out on display? No, that still does not do it for me.

On my feet, the "front" starts where the sock reaches my shin,
and goes down. I was thinking,"to where the shoe begins" --
but it is easy to extend that from top to toe. And "back"
would have been the other side, from top to shoe, but (if
one insists) including the bottom of the foot, all the way to
the toe.

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Post by Rich Ulrich

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by jerryfriedman
What's the front part, by the way?

The part that covers his toes.

Curious. It didn't occur to me to apply the spatial metaphor
to socks that way. If I were talking about the toes, I would simply
say "the toes".

"They cut off his toes" would sound a bit drastic.

[Snidely]

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by Rich Ulrich

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by jerryfriedman
What's the front part, by the way?

The part that covers his toes.

Curious. It didn't occur to me to apply the spatial metaphor
to socks that way. If I were talking about the toes, I would simply
say "the toes".

"They cut off his toes" would sound a bit drastic.

But "they cut off the toes of his socks" sounds a bit less drastic.

-d

[Sam Plusnet]

Post by Snidely

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by jerryfriedman
What's the front part, by the way?

The part that covers his toes.

Curious.  It didn't occur to me to apply the spatial metaphor
to socks that way. If I were talking about the toes, I would simply
say "the toes".

"They cut off his toes" would sound a bit drastic.

But "they cut off the toes of his socks" sounds a bit less drastic.

My wife once had a pair of socks which had toes, but they were pretty
unusual.

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Post by Sam Plusnet
My wife once had a pair of socks which had toes, but they were pretty
unusual.

https://www.fruugo.dk/4-par-korte-sokker-til-maend-med-fem-taeer-enkle-splittastromper-e/p-306315509-686235176

[Snidely]

On Friday or thereabouts, Bertel Lund Hansen declared ...

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by Sam Plusnet
My wife once had a pair of socks which had toes, but they were pretty
unusual.

https://www.fruugo.dk/4-par-korte-sokker-til-maend-med-fem-taeer-enkle-splittastromper-e/p-306315509-686235176

I think I've even seen shoes with individual toes, but they were
similar to "water socks" or maybe to Crocs.

/dps "mebbe, mebbe not"

[Anders D. Nygaard]

Post by Snidely
On Friday or thereabouts, Bertel Lund Hansen declared ...

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by Sam Plusnet
My wife once had a pair of socks which had toes, but they were pretty
unusual.

https://www.fruugo.dk/4-par-korte-sokker-til-maend-med-fem-taeer-
enkle-splittastromper-e/p-306315509-686235176

I think I've even seen shoes with individual toes, but they were similar
to "water socks" or maybe to Crocs.

My wife has a pair similar to these
<https://www.alun.dk/shop/fivefingers-classic-sort.html> that she wears
for workout and swears by. They are very light, which I believe is a
significant component of their attraction.

/Anders, Denmark.

[Sam Plusnet]

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by Sam Plusnet
My wife once had a pair of socks which had toes, but they were pretty
unusual.

https://www.fruugo.dk/4-par-korte-sokker-til-maend-med-fem-taeer-enkle-splittastromper-e/p-306315509-686235176

My wife's socks had toes of many colours.

[Snidely]

Post by Sam Plusnet

Post by Snidely

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by jerryfriedman
What's the front part, by the way?

The part that covers his toes.

Curious.  It didn't occur to me to apply the spatial metaphor
to socks that way. If I were talking about the toes, I would simply
say "the toes".

"They cut off his toes" would sound a bit drastic.

But "they cut off the toes of his socks" sounds a bit less drastic.

My wife once had a pair of socks which had toes, but they were pretty
unusual.

My socks have one toe each, and that's hard enough to put on. I might
be able to manage the Japanese style with two toes each.

/dps

[lar3ryca]

Post by Sam Plusnet

Post by Snidely

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by jerryfriedman
What's the front part, by the way?

The part that covers his toes.

Curious.  It didn't occur to me to apply the spatial metaphor
to socks that way. If I were talking about the toes, I would simply
say "the toes".

"They cut off his toes" would sound a bit drastic.

But "they cut off the toes of his socks" sounds a bit less drastic.

My wife once had a pair of socks which had toes, but they were pretty
unusual.

I have a friend who wears those. He also wears 'barefoot shoes', and is
somewhat of a fanatic about how they are much better for the feet.

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Post by lar3ryca

Post by Sam Plusnet
My wife once had a pair of socks which had toes, but they were pretty
unusual.

I have a friend who wears those. He also wears 'barefoot shoes', and is
somewhat of a fanatic about how they are much better for the feet.

I don't see any advantage of socks with toes, but I do wear shoes with
space for the toes.

https://www.jacoform.dk/products/jacoformskobarkbeigeruskindoriginal-jf350__09__

[Sam Plusnet]

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by lar3ryca

Post by Sam Plusnet
My wife once had a pair of socks which had toes, but they were pretty
unusual.

I have a friend who wears those. He also wears 'barefoot shoes', and is
somewhat of a fanatic about how they are much better for the feet.

I don't see any advantage of socks with toes, but I do wear shoes with
space for the toes.
https://www.jacoform.dk/products/jacoformskobarkbeigeruskindoriginal-jf350__09__

Due to age, both my wife and I now buy shoes from a company which
specialises in "Wide and Deep" fitting shoes.
It sometimes makes me think of pizza.

[lar3ryca]

Post by Rich Ulrich
On Thu, 28 Nov 2024 20:08:40 +0100, Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by jerryfriedman
What's the front part, by the way?

The part that covers his toes.

Curious. It didn't occur to me to apply the spatial metaphor
to socks that way. If I were talking about the toes, I would simply
say "the toes".
Perhaps the toes are "the front" if I look at a pair stretched
out on display? No, that still does not do it for me.
On my feet, the "front" starts where the sock reaches my shin,
and goes down. I was thinking,"to where the shoe begins" --
but it is easy to extend that from top to toe. And "back"
would have been the other side, from top to shoe, but (if
one insists) including the bottom of the foot, all the way to
the toe.

Really? To me, the front is covering the end of your longest toe.
When you say the front of your car, are you referring to the top of the
windshield where it goes down?

[Anders D. Nygaard]

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen
I haven't met such expensive rituals in Denmark. In fact I knew nothing
about what people would do to a wedding until my friend was married when
I was about 50. The male guests at some point took hold of him and cut
off the front part of his socks.

That's new to me. What's the point, to get him
started on undressing?

No. There was no follow-up.

Well, he must have undressed sometime later.

Sure, but not in the party room.

Post by jerryfriedman
But "Apparently it is for the guy to see how good his
new wife is at sewing."

I'd say "darning" - but I suppose that is rapidly becoming a lost art.

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen
Wife repairing socks? What a laugh. The socks would end in the garbage
bin (or be kept as souvenir).

Today, yes, but not at the time when the tradition originated.

/Anders, Denmark

[Silvano]

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen
No. She just showed it and got an applause. Then she lowered her dress
again and sat down. There were no other rituals. But it wouldn't
surprise me if at other weddings the garter was thrown and caught. I
think that it happens with the bouquet.

Yes, the bouquet gets thrown frequently in Italy. My daughter wore no
garter when she married in Germany a few months ago.

And my son-in-law would have hated the suggestion of cutting off the
front part of his socks, because he never wears flat-coloured socks.

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Post by Silvano
And my son-in-law would have hated the suggestion of cutting off the
front part of his socks, because he never wears flat-coloured socks.

Your son would have gotten a used away pair of socks from a reuse shop
just for the occasion.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Post by Silvano

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen
No. She just showed it and got an applause. Then she lowered her dress
again and sat down. There were no other rituals. But it wouldn't
surprise me if at other weddings the garter was thrown and caught. I
think that it happens with the bouquet.

Yes, the bouquet gets thrown frequently in Italy. My daughter wore no
garter when she married in Germany a few months ago.
And my son-in-law would have hated the suggestion of cutting off the
front part of his socks, because he never wears flat-coloured socks.

My first two daughters were married in California, long enough ago for
me not to remember if bouquets or garters were thrown. My youngest
daughter was married in Paris, and she wasn't interested in having a
fancy wedding.

[Steve Hayes]

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Janet
My son and daughter in law attended a friend's week-long
wedding extravaganza abroad, for which the bride had
commissioned two identical wedding dresses made to
measure, each cost thousands.
The day after the wedding, she wore one of them to the
beach for a ceremony involving all the guests called
"trash the dress". Its virginal twin is preserved for
posterity.

Humans are weird.

Perhaps it's a version of this:

Izikhothane: a new word for an old fashion?

<https://khanya.wordpress.com/2012/08/14/izikhothane-a-new-word-for-an-old-fashion/>

[jerryfriedman]

Post by Steve Hayes

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Janet
My son and daughter in law attended a friend's week-long
wedding extravaganza abroad, for which the bride had
commissioned two identical wedding dresses made to
measure, each cost thousands.
The day after the wedding, she wore one of them to the
beach for a ceremony involving all the guests called
"trash the dress". Its virginal twin is preserved for
posterity.

Humans are weird.

Izikhothane: a new word for an old fashion?
<https://khanya.wordpress.com/2012/08/14/izikhothane-a-new-word-for-an-old-fashion/>

I can't find an English word specifically for
deliberately destroying one's valuable possessions
to show off one's wealth. Conspicuous consumption
includes that but also includes plain old
extravagant spending.

--
Jerry Friedman

--

[Steve Hayes]

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Steve Hayes

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Janet
My son and daughter in law attended a friend's week-long
wedding extravaganza abroad, for which the bride had
commissioned two identical wedding dresses made to
measure, each cost thousands.
The day after the wedding, she wore one of them to the
beach for a ceremony involving all the guests called
"trash the dress". Its virginal twin is preserved for
posterity.

Humans are weird.

Izikhothane: a new word for an old fashion?
<https://khanya.wordpress.com/2012/08/14/izikhothane-a-new-word-for-an-old-fashion/>

I can't find an English word specifically for
deliberately destroying one's valuable possessions
to show off one's wealth. Conspicuous consumption
includes that but also includes plain old
extravagant spending.

Perhaps that's why they use the Zulu/Xhosa word, even in
English-language news sources.

[Rich Ulrich]

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Steve Hayes

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Janet
My son and daughter in law attended a friend's week-long
wedding extravaganza abroad, for which the bride had
commissioned two identical wedding dresses made to
measure, each cost thousands.
The day after the wedding, she wore one of them to the
beach for a ceremony involving all the guests called
"trash the dress". Its virginal twin is preserved for
posterity.

Humans are weird.

Izikhothane: a new word for an old fashion?
<https://khanya.wordpress.com/2012/08/14/izikhothane-a-new-word-for-an-old-fashion/>

I can't find an English word specifically for
deliberately destroying one's valuable possessions
to show off one's wealth. Conspicuous consumption
includes that but also includes plain old
extravagant spending.

I recalled "potlatch" as an American Indian tradition concerning
wealth.

It turns out to be more localized and also more complicated
than what I had heard of. Maybe more giving-away than
destroying. Wiki has an article with details, which begins,

A potlatch is a gift-giving feast practiced by Indigenous peoples
of the Pacific Northwest Coast of Canada and the United States

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Post by Rich Ulrich

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Steve Hayes

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Janet
My son and daughter in law attended a friend's week-long
wedding extravaganza abroad, for which the bride had
commissioned two identical wedding dresses made to
measure, each cost thousands.
The day after the wedding, she wore one of them to the
beach for a ceremony involving all the guests called
"trash the dress". Its virginal twin is preserved for
posterity.

Humans are weird.

Izikhothane: a new word for an old fashion?
<https://khanya.wordpress.com/2012/08/14/izikhothane-a-new-word-for-an-old-fashion/>

I can't find an English word specifically for
deliberately destroying one's valuable possessions
to show off one's wealth. Conspicuous consumption
includes that but also includes plain old
extravagant spending.

I recalled "potlatch" as an American Indian tradition concerning
wealth.
It turns out to be more localized and also more complicated
than what I had heard of. Maybe more giving-away than
destroying. Wiki has an article with details, which begins,
A potlatch is a gift-giving feast practiced by Indigenous peoples
of the Pacific Northwest Coast of Canada and the United States

You got there before me. I was trying to remember the word "potlatch",
and failing.

[Rich Ulrich]

On Sat, 30 Nov 2024 09:52:00 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
<***@yahoo.com> wrote:
me >>

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by Rich Ulrich
I recalled "potlatch" as an American Indian tradition concerning
wealth.
It turns out to be more localized and also more complicated
than what I had heard of. Maybe more giving-away than
destroying. Wiki has an article with details, which begins,
A potlatch is a gift-giving feast practiced by Indigenous peoples
of the Pacific Northwest Coast of Canada and the United States

You got there before me. I was trying to remember the word "potlatch",
and failing.

It did not leap to my mind, either. I got "potlatch" by Googling on
Indian and something -- The first 10 hits related to India except for
one that was potlatch.

What had crossed my mind was "potluck" but I knew that was
not it.

Today, I wondered if potluck is an adaptation/ corruption of potlatch.
Google books ngrams halfway suppports that idea: That is, "potluck
supper" is practically unknown in BrE until the 1990s, and its peak
percentage starts with 6 zeros. In the US, uses start after WW I,
and the chart has only 5 leading zeros.

Hmm. Google says Thomas Nash used the term in the 16th C. but
that looks like a false clue. Others have suggested the potlatch-
eggcorn.

"Potluck" is used elsewhere, but I think it is by extension from the
"potluck supper" where every person/ family brings a dish to share.
My (small) childhood church regulary held potluck suppers where
the families would meet, eat, and socialize. I don't remember any
sermons or classes, just socializing.

[Tony Cooper]

On Sat, 30 Nov 2024 13:27:22 -0500, Rich Ulrich

Post by Rich Ulrich
On Sat, 30 Nov 2024 09:52:00 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
me >>

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by Rich Ulrich
I recalled "potlatch" as an American Indian tradition concerning
wealth.
It turns out to be more localized and also more complicated
than what I had heard of. Maybe more giving-away than
destroying. Wiki has an article with details, which begins,
A potlatch is a gift-giving feast practiced by Indigenous peoples
of the Pacific Northwest Coast of Canada and the United States

You got there before me. I was trying to remember the word "potlatch",
and failing.

It did not leap to my mind, either. I got "potlatch" by Googling on
Indian and something -- The first 10 hits related to India except for
one that was potlatch.
What had crossed my mind was "potluck" but I knew that was
not it.
Today, I wondered if potluck is an adaptation/ corruption of potlatch.
Google books ngrams halfway suppports that idea: That is, "potluck
supper" is practically unknown in BrE until the 1990s, and its peak
percentage starts with 6 zeros. In the US, uses start after WW I,
and the chart has only 5 leading zeros.
Hmm. Google says Thomas Nash used the term in the 16th C. but
that looks like a false clue. Others have suggested the potlatch-
eggcorn.
"Potluck" is used elsewhere, but I think it is by extension from the
"potluck supper" where every person/ family brings a dish to share.
My (small) childhood church regulary held potluck suppers where
the families would meet, eat, and socialize. I don't remember any
sermons or classes, just socializing.

When we lived in Indianapolis in the late 1960s, we often went for
Sunday drives to some of the smaller, rural, towns in Indiana. On
those trips we frequently stopped for dinner at church suppers.

Members of church brought dishes to these "potluck" dinners. The
appeal of stopping at these church suppers was getting "homemade"
dinners away from home. At most of them, there was usually a table
where members of the church sold their pies, cakes, and other
desserts.

My wife still has some recipes she collected at these church suppers.

[Joy Beeson]

On Sat, 30 Nov 2024 13:27:22 -0500, Rich Ulrich

Post by Rich Ulrich
"Potluck" is used elsewhere, but I think it is by extension from the
"potluck supper" where every person/ family brings a dish to share.
My (small) childhood church regulary held potluck suppers where
the families would meet, eat, and socialize. I don't remember any
sermons or classes, just socializing.

It was "pitch-in dinner" when I was growing up in central Indiana in
the forties and fifties. "Potluck" meant eating whatever happened to
be prepared.

I've heard "carry-in dinner" too.

[Hibou]

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Steve Hayes

Post by jerryfriedman

  My son and daughter in law attended a friend's week-long
wedding extravaganza abroad, for which the bride had
commissioned two identical wedding dresses  made to
measure, each cost thousands.
 The day after the wedding, she wore one of them to the
beach for a ceremony involving all the guests called
"trash the dress". Its virginal twin is preserved for
posterity.

Humans are weird.

Izikhothane: a new word for an old fashion?
<https://khanya.wordpress.com/2012/08/14/izikhothane-a-new-word-for-an-old-fashion/>

I can't find an English word specifically for
deliberately destroying one's valuable possessions
to show off one's wealth.  Conspicuous consumption
includes that but also includes plain old
extravagant spending.

There's 'burning money' or 'having money to burn', possibly more
recognisable, pronounceable, and spellable than 'izikhothane'.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Steve Hayes

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Janet
My son and daughter in law attended a friend's week-long
wedding extravaganza abroad, for which the bride had
commissioned two identical wedding dresses made to
measure, each cost thousands.
The day after the wedding, she wore one of them to the
beach for a ceremony involving all the guests called
"trash the dress". Its virginal twin is preserved for
posterity.

Humans are weird.

Izikhothane: a new word for an old fashion?
<https://khanya.wordpress.com/2012/08/14/izikhothane-a-new-word-for-an-old-fashion/>

I can't find an English word specifically for
deliberately destroying one's valuable possessions
to show off one's wealth.

That's what they used to do in the Pacific Northwest, I think.

Post by jerryfriedman
Conspicuous consumption
includes that but also includes plain old
extravagant spending.
--
Jerry Friedman

[lar3ryca]

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Steve Hayes

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Janet
My son and daughter in law attended a friend's week-long
wedding extravaganza abroad, for which the bride had
commissioned two identical wedding dresses  made to
measure, each cost thousands.
The day after the wedding, she wore one of them to the
beach for a ceremony involving all the guests called
"trash the dress". Its virginal twin is preserved for
posterity.

Humans are weird.

Izikhothane: a new word for an old fashion?
<https://khanya.wordpress.com/2012/08/14/izikhothane-a-new-word-for-an-old-fashion/>

I can't find an English word specifically for
deliberately destroying one's valuable possessions
to show off one's wealth.

That's what they used to do in the Pacific Northwest, I think.

I used to live there, in the Great Pacific Southwest.

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by jerryfriedman
 Conspicuous consumption
includes that but also includes plain old
extravagant spending.
--
Jerry Friedman

[Ross Clark]

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Steve Hayes

Post by jerryfriedman

  My son and daughter in law attended a friend's week-long
wedding extravaganza abroad, for which the bride had
commissioned two identical wedding dresses  made to
measure, each cost thousands.
 The day after the wedding, she wore one of them to the
beach for a ceremony involving all the guests called
"trash the dress". Its virginal twin is preserved for
posterity.

Humans are weird.

Izikhothane: a new word for an old fashion?
<https://khanya.wordpress.com/2012/08/14/izikhothane-a-new-word-for-an-old-fashion/>

I can't find an English word specifically for
deliberately destroying one's valuable possessions
to show off one's wealth.  Conspicuous consumption
includes that but also includes plain old
extravagant spending.
--
Jerry Friedman
--

Something like this was part of the potlatch tradition of the Northwest
Coast peoples of North America. The host might take an extremely
valuable copper plaque, break it in pieces and throw it in the sea, just
to show how wealthy he was. But I don't find an English word for exactly
that type of act.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potlatch

[Janet]

Post by Ross Clark

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Steve Hayes

Post by jerryfriedman

  My son and daughter in law attended a friend's week-long
wedding extravaganza abroad, for which the bride had
commissioned two identical wedding dresses  made to
measure, each cost thousands.
 The day after the wedding, she wore one of them to the
beach for a ceremony involving all the guests called
"trash the dress". Its virginal twin is preserved for
posterity.

Humans are weird.

Izikhothane: a new word for an old fashion?
<https://khanya.wordpress.com/2012/08/14/izikhothane-a-new-word-for-an-old-fashion/>

I can't find an English word specifically for
deliberately destroying one's valuable possessions
to show off one's wealth.  Conspicuous consumption
includes that but also includes plain old
extravagant spending.
--
Jerry Friedman
--

Something like this was part of the potlatch tradition of the Northwest
Coast peoples of North America. The host might take an extremely
valuable copper plaque, break it in pieces and throw it in the sea, just
to show how wealthy he was. But I don't find an English word for exactly
that type of act.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potlatch

Glasses are smashed at Jewidh weddings; and crockery at
Greek celebrations.

Janet

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Post by Janet

Post by Ross Clark
Something like this was part of the potlatch tradition of the Northwest
Coast peoples of North America. The host might take an extremely
valuable copper plaque, break it in pieces and throw it in the sea, just
to show how wealthy he was. But I don't find an English word for exactly
that type of act.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potlatch

Glasses are smashed at Jewidh weddings; and crockery at
Greek celebrations.

Yes, but not to show off wealth, I believe.

[jerryfriedman]

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by Janet

Post by Ross Clark
Something like this was part of the potlatch tradition of the Northwest
Coast peoples of North America. The host might take an extremely
valuable copper plaque, break it in pieces and throw it in the sea, just
to show how wealthy he was. But I don't find an English word for exactly
that type of act.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potlatch

Glasses are smashed at Jewidh weddings; and crockery at
Greek celebrations.

Yes, but not to show off wealth, I believe.

Indeed, at Jewish weddings it's just one glass, and
it's wrapped in a cloth for safety and for clean-up
convenience, in my limited experience, so guests can't
even guess how expensive it is. I suspect that most
rich parents spring for fragile crystal, though.

Then there's throwing glasses into the fireplace
after you toast the Tsar.

--
Jerry Friedman

--

[jerryfriedman]

..

Post by Ross Clark

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Steve Hayes
Izikhothane: a new word for an old fashion?
<https://khanya.wordpress.com/2012/08/14/izikhothane-a-new-word-for-an-old-fashion/>

I can't find an English word specifically for
deliberately destroying one's valuable possessions
to show off one's wealth.  Conspicuous consumption
includes that but also includes plain old
extravagant spending.
--
Jerry Friedman
--

Something like this was part of the potlatch tradition of the Northwest
Coast peoples of North America. The host might take an extremely
valuable copper plaque, break it in pieces and throw it in the sea, just
to show how wealthy he was. But I don't find an English word for exactly
that type of act.

..

Maybe we need a phrase, anyway. Conspicuous destruction?

Or we could ask Pete Townshend.

--
Jerry Friedman

--

[Steve Hayes]

Post by Peter Moylan
I have never been happy with the practice of some schools of referring
to the departure of year 12 pupils as "graduation", although I can see
some justification for the term. I recall my own school leaving as a
major event in my life, even if we didn't have a ceremony to mark it.
Now I've just received an invitation from a Day Care centre to attend on
the occasion of the graduation of my 4-year-old granddaughter. It's not
even a school.

In my son's nursery school they had a ceremony with academic caps and
gowns. He's now 45.