"There is No "P" in Hamster: Millennial Writer Has Meltdown Over..."

Post by l***@yahoo.com
I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned here yet! It's from July and took place at a workplace. Keep in mind that millennials are SUPPOSED to be adults by now...
https://www.wibc.com/blogs/tony-katz/there-no-p-hamster-millennial-writer-has-meltdown-over-spelling-hamster-has-mother
"The young woman kept saying, 'I thought what I wrote was perfect and she just made all these changes and then had the nerve to tell me I was spelling words wrong when I know they are right because that is how I have always spelled them.'”
More on it. Note: Carol Blymire is merely the one who observed and reported the incident; I don't think the guilty party's name is available.

From one of Blymire's tweets describing the incident:

The young woman kept saying, “I don’t know why you corrected that
because I spell it with the P in it.” The boss said (calmly), “But
that’s not how the word is spelled. There is no P in hamster.”

My response: "maybe you're just not squeezing them hard enough"....r

Adam Funk

2019-09-18 14:53:29 UTC

Post by RH Draney

The young woman kept saying, “I don’t know why you corrected that
because I spell it with the P in it.” The boss said (calmly), “But
that’s not how the word is spelled. There is no P in hamster.”
My response: "maybe you're just not squeezing them hard enough"....r

That's the SPCA knocking on your door....

--
All crime is due to incorrect breathing.
---Sir Henry Rawlinson

Dingbat

2019-09-18 00:59:56 UTC

A hampster would be a resident of Hampstead:->

Adam Funk

2019-09-18 16:01:21 UTC

Post by Dingbat
A hampster would be a resident of Hampstead:->

What about the Hempstead Turnpike?

--
All crime is due to incorrect breathing.
---Sir Henry Rawlinson

Peter T. Daniels

2019-09-18 17:58:12 UTC

Post by Dingbat
A hampster would be a resident of Hampstead:->

What about the Hempstead Turnpike?

Looks Dutch ... yes ...

"In local Dutch-language documents of the 1640s and later, the town was invariably called Heemstede,[4] and several of Hempstead's original 50 patentees were Dutch, suggesting that Hempstead was named after the Dutch town and/or castle Heemstede, which are near the cities of Haarlem and Amsterdam. However, the authorities possibly had Dutchified a name given by co-founder John Carman, who was born in 1606 in Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire, England, on land owned by his ancestors since the 13th century.[5]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hempstead,_New_York#History

Not a shred of evidence is offered for the Hemel-Hempstead guess -- the
page referenced in Note 5 says only "It has been suggested ...."

Adam Funk

2019-09-24 09:10:09 UTC

Post by Dingbat
A hampster would be a resident of Hampstead:->

What about the Hempstead Turnpike?

Looks Dutch ... yes ...
"In local Dutch-language documents of the 1640s and later, the town was invariably called Heemstede,[4] and several of Hempstead's original 50 patentees were Dutch, suggesting that Hempstead was named after the Dutch town and/or castle Heemstede, which are near the cities of Haarlem and Amsterdam. However, the authorities possibly had Dutchified a name given by co-founder John Carman, who was born in 1606 in Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire, England, on land owned by his ancestors since the 13th century.[5]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hempstead,_New_York#History
Not a shred of evidence is offered for the Hemel-Hempstead guess -- the
page referenced in Note 5 says only "It has been suggested ...."

Interesting, thanks.

--
To live without killing is a thought which could electrify the world,
if men were only capable of staying awake long enough to let the idea
soak in. ---Henry Miller

charles

2019-09-24 09:44:23 UTC

Post by Dingbat
A hampster would be a resident of Hampstead:->

What about the Hempstead Turnpike?

Looks Dutch ... yes ...
"In local Dutch-language documents of the 1640s and later, the town was invariably called Heemstede,[4] and several of Hempstead's original 50 patentees were Dutch, suggesting that Hempstead was named after the Dutch town and/or castle Heemstede, which are near the cities of Haarlem and Amsterdam. However, the authorities possibly had Dutchified a name given by co-founder John Carman, who was born in 1606 in Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire, England, on land owned by his ancestors since the 13th century.[5]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hempstead,_New_York#History
Not a shred of evidence is offered for the Hemel-Hempstead guess -- the
page referenced in Note 5 says only "It has been suggested ...."

Interesting, thanks.

our nearest town is "Leatherhead" until mid-Victorian times it was
"Leatheread".

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

RH Draney

2019-09-24 10:58:26 UTC

Post by charles
our nearest town is "Leatherhead" until mid-Victorian times it was
"Leatheread".

So some time in the mid-19th century the place developed aspirations....r

Ken Blake

2019-09-18 19:00:13 UTC

Post by Dingbat
A hampster would be a resident of Hampstead:->

What about the Hempstead Turnpike?

No, there are no hampsters resident there.

Tony Cooper

2019-09-18 19:42:12 UTC

Post by Ken Blake

Post by Dingbat
A hampster would be a resident of Hampstead:->

What about the Hempstead Turnpike?

No, there are no hampsters resident there.

The Hamptons is area on the eastern shore of Long Island NY that -
from what I've read - is a very upscale area.

I don't know how the people who live there, or vacation there,
pronounce it. I would hit the "p", but I don't know if they would.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

Peter T. Daniels

2019-09-18 21:05:22 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper

Post by Ken Blake

Post by Dingbat
A hampster would be a resident of Hampstead:->

What about the Hempstead Turnpike?

No, there are no hampsters resident there.

The Hamptons is area on the eastern shore of Long Island NY that -
from what I've read - is a very upscale area.
I don't know how the people who live there, or vacation there,
pronounce it. I would hit the "p", but I don't know if they would.

There's no "hitting." The p is pronounced.

Stefan Ram

2019-09-18 01:08:23 UTC

"The young woman kept saying, 'I thought what I wrote was perfect and she j=
ust made all these changes and then had the nerve to tell me I was spelling=

This story conveys this feeling that I have when I read a
made-up story. It may be exaggerated and concentrating
several experiences into one story, but surely, generally
speaking, something like this /is/ possible.

When parents artificially give forced praise to children
(maybe) in order to strengthen their self-confidence, the
children will eventually learn the usual rules and evaluation
standards from the real world ("learn the hard way").

Regardless of that: It can be right to write "hampster".
A web search gives:

|www.yourdictionary.com › hampster
|hampster. Noun. (plural hampsters). Alternative form of hamster.

|Hampster Dance - Wikipedia
|en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Hampster_Dance
|The Hampster Dance is one of the earliest examples of an
|Internet meme.

The "Hampster Dance" is written this way, not "Hamster Dance".

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2019-09-18 11:12:25 UTC

I sympathize with the young woman. I've been guilty of writing "Chinese
Hampster" myself in work intended for publication, and having it
corrected by someone who worked on the beasts. "Hampster" may not be
right, but it _looks_ right.

--
athel

Peter T. Daniels

2019-09-18 14:18:59 UTC

Doesn't. But it does help confirm the observation, long ago, that so
many of you denied at the time, that intrusive stop consonants can and
do intrude between nasals and following consonants.

(I wouldn't be at all surprised if "Hampshire" goes back to an earlier
"Hamshire," and even "Hampton" to "Hamton.") (I wish I could ask Eric
Hamp.)

charles

2019-09-18 16:05:05 UTC

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 7:10:00 AM UTC-4, Athel

Doesn't. But it does help confirm the observation, long ago, that so
many of you denied at the time, that intrusive stop consonants can and
do intrude between nasals and following consonants.
(I wouldn't be at all surprised if "Hampshire" goes back to an earlier
"Hamshire," and even "Hampton" to "Hamton.") (I wish I could ask Eric
Hamp.)

Hampshire comes from "Southamptonshire"

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

Peter T. Daniels

2019-09-18 17:51:33 UTC

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 7:10:00 AM UTC-4, Athel

Doesn't. But it does help confirm the observation, long ago, that so
many of you denied at the time, that intrusive stop consonants can and
do intrude between nasals and following consonants.

I remembered the example -- "tense" and "tents" are likely to sound alike.

(I wouldn't be at all surprised if "Hampshire" goes back to an earlier
"Hamshire," and even "Hampton" to "Hamton.") (I wish I could ask Eric
Hamp.)

Hampshire comes from "Southamptonshire"

Well, that takes you part way back!

Dingbat

2019-09-19 12:12:43 UTC

I've been guilty of writing "Chinese Hampster" myself
in work intended for publication, and having it corrected
by someone who worked on the beasts. "Hampster" may not be
right, but it _looks_ right.

Doesn't. But it does help confirm the observation, long ago, that so
many of you denied at the time, that intrusive stop consonants can and
do intrude between nasals and following consonants.

I remembered the example -- "tense" and "tents" are likely to sound alike.

In dialects where they differ, how do they differ? It seems like the latter
could be [tEn?s] in some dialect.

Would any Anglo distinguish between disser and diseur or between
disuse and diseuse? A diseur/diseuse is a male/female reciter.

Peter T. Daniels

2019-09-19 13:32:34 UTC

I've been guilty of writing "Chinese Hampster" myself
in work intended for publication, and having it corrected
by someone who worked on the beasts. "Hampster" may not be
right, but it _looks_ right.

Doesn't. But it does help confirm the observation, long ago, that so
many of you denied at the time, that intrusive stop consonants can and
do intrude between nasals and following consonants.

I remembered the example -- "tense" and "tents" are likely to sound alike.

In dialects where they differ, how do they differ? It seems like the latter
could be [tEn?s] in some dialect.

Why? Glottalization of /t/ happens intervocalically or word-finally.

Post by Dingbat
Would any Anglo distinguish between disser and diseur or between
disuse and diseuse? A diseur/diseuse is a male/female reciter.

Of course. The French words have [z], the English words have [s]; and
the vowels are completely different (i.e. different phonemes).

Ross

2019-09-19 21:28:23 UTC

I've been guilty of writing "Chinese Hampster" myself
in work intended for publication, and having it corrected
by someone who worked on the beasts. "Hampster" may not be
right, but it _looks_ right.

Doesn't. But it does help confirm the observation, long ago, that so
many of you denied at the time, that intrusive stop consonants can and
do intrude between nasals and following consonants.

I remembered the example -- "tense" and "tents" are likely to sound alike.

In dialects where they differ, how do they differ? It seems like the latter
could be [tEn?s] in some dialect.

Why? Glottalization of /t/ happens intervocalically or word-finally.

However, "glottal reinforcement" is a possibility in environments
like "tense":

"[GR] is common in some varieties of English, RP included; /t/ and /tʃ/
are the most affected but /p/ and /k/ also regularly show
pre-glottalization. In the English dialects exhibiting pre-glottalization,
the consonants in question are usually glottalized in the coda position:
"what" [ˈwɒʔt], "fiction" [ˈfɪʔkʃən], "milkman" [ˈmɪɫʔkmən], "opera"
[ˈɒʔpɹə]. To a certain extent, some varieties of English have free
variation between glottal replacement and glottal reinforcement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glottalization#English

Dingbat

2019-09-19 23:59:49 UTC

Post by Peter T. Daniels
I remembered the example -- "tense" and "tents" are likely to sound alike.

In dialects where they differ, how do they differ? It seems like
the latter could be [tEn?s] in some dialect.

Why? Glottalization of /t/ happens intervocalically or word-finally.

It seems to happen in this context too:
"I gotta tell you something" pronounced as
[aI gAt@ te jy sA~?n].

That's what I heard an AAV speaking janitor (custodian?) tell a professor.

Ross

2019-09-20 01:18:12 UTC

Post by Peter T. Daniels
I remembered the example -- "tense" and "tents" are likely to sound alike.

In dialects where they differ, how do they differ? It seems like
the latter could be [tEn?s] in some dialect.

Why? Glottalization of /t/ happens intervocalically or word-finally.

"I gotta tell you something" pronounced as
That's what I heard an AAV speaking janitor (custodian?) tell a professor.

That sounds plausible, but would probably be covered by the
conditions already mentioned: something > some[p]thing > sumpin',
with glottalization and further reduction.

Peter T. Daniels

2019-09-20 12:58:22 UTC

Post by Peter T. Daniels
I remembered the example -- "tense" and "tents" are likely to sound alike.

In dialects where they differ, how do they differ? It seems like
the latter could be [tEn?s] in some dialect.

Why? Glottalization of /t/ happens intervocalically or word-finally.

"I gotta tell you something" pronounced as
That's what I heard an AAV speaking janitor (custodian?) tell a professor.

Different phenomenon. The Brits love to point out that it happens in
"American," whereas Brit (Estuary)-style glottalization generally doesn't.

Dingbat

2019-09-20 23:01:48 UTC

Post by Peter T. Daniels
Glottalization of /t/ happens intervocalically or word-finally.

"I gotta tell you something" pronounced as
That's what I heard an AAVE speaking janitor tell a professor.

More precisely, it was [aI gɑˑɾə teː jy sɤ̃:ʔn̩].

Peter Moylan

2019-09-19 13:43:03 UTC

I've been guilty of writing "Chinese Hampster" myself in work
intended for publication, and having it corrected by someone
who worked on the beasts. "Hampster" may not be right, but it
_looks_ right.

Doesn't. But it does help confirm the observation, long ago,
that so many of you denied at the time, that intrusive stop
consonants can and do intrude between nasals and following
consonants.

I remembered the example -- "tense" and "tents" are likely to sound alike.

In dialects where they differ, how do they differ? It seems like the
latter could be [tEn?s] in some dialect.

It depends on how you pronounce the "ns". If you do it with the tip of
the tongue an intrusive [t] is almost inevitable. If you do it with the
flat of the tongue then there is no intrusive [t].

Post by Dingbat
Would any Anglo distinguish between disser and diseur or between
disuse and diseuse? A diseur/diseuse is a male/female reciter.

I had never heard of the word "diseur", but it's obviously of French
origin, so I would probably pronounce it the French way - so, very
different from disser.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

Paul Carmichael

2019-09-19 13:47:59 UTC

I've been guilty of writing "Chinese Hampster" myself in work
intended for publication, and having it corrected by someone
who worked on the beasts. "Hampster" may not be right, but it
_looks_ right.

Doesn't. But it does help confirm the observation, long ago,
that so many of you denied at the time, that intrusive stop
consonants can and do intrude between nasals and following
consonants.

I remembered the example -- "tense" and "tents" are likely to sound alike.

In dialects where they differ, how do they differ? It seems like the
latter could be [tEn?s] in some dialect.

It depends on how you pronounce the "ns". If you do it with the tip of
the tongue an intrusive [t] is almost inevitable.

Pretty obvious in my case. Like the German z.

--
Paul.

https://paulc.es/
https://asetrad.org

phil

2019-09-19 21:36:29 UTC

Post by Peter T. Daniels
I remembered the example -- "tense" and "tents" are likely to sound alike.

"Luke, I know what you're getting for Christmas"
"How do you know that, Obi?"
"I felt your presents"

I'll get me coat...

Peter Duncanson [BrE]

2019-09-19 22:20:06 UTC

On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 10:51:33 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 7:10:00 AM UTC-4, Athel

Doesn't. But it does help confirm the observation, long ago, that so
many of you denied at the time, that intrusive stop consonants can and
do intrude between nasals and following consonants.

I remembered the example -- "tense" and "tents" are likely to sound alike.

(I wouldn't be at all surprised if "Hampshire" goes back to an earlier
"Hamshire," and even "Hampton" to "Hamton.") (I wish I could ask Eric
Hamp.)

Hampshire comes from "Southamptonshire"

Well, that takes you part way back!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southampton#Early_Southampton

Early Southampton

....
The Anglo-Saxons formed a new, larger, settlement across the Itchen
centred on what is now the St Mary's area of the city. The
settlement was known as Hamwic, which evolved into Hamtun and
then Hampton. Archaeological excavations of this site have
uncovered one of the best collections of Saxon artefacts in
Europe. It is from this town that the county of Hampshire gets
its name.

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

Paul Wolff

2019-09-20 10:37:55 UTC

On Thu, 19 Sep 2019, at 23:20:06, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"

Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 10:51:33 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

Post by l***@yahoo.com
I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned here yet! It's from July and
took place at a workplace. Keep in mind that millennials are SUPPOSED
to be adul ts by now...

Post by l***@yahoo.com
https://www.wibc.com/blogs/tony-katz/there-no-p-hamster-millennial-writer-h

as-meltdown-over-spelling-hamster-has-mother Quote: "The young woman
kept saying, 'I thought what I wrote was perfect and she j ust made
all these changes and then had the nerve to tell me I was spelling
words wrong when I know they are right because that is how I have
always s pelled them.'•

Doesn't. But it does help confirm the observation, long ago, that so
many of you denied at the time, that intrusive stop consonants can and
do intrude between nasals and following consonants.

I remembered the example -- "tense" and "tents" are likely to sound alike.

Post by Peter T. Daniels
(I wouldn't be at all surprised if "Hampshire" goes back to an earlier
"Hamshire," and even "Hampton" to "Hamton.") (I wish I could ask Eric
Hamp.)

Hampshire comes from "Southamptonshire"

Well, that takes you part way back!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southampton#Early_Southampton
Early Southampton
....
The Anglo-Saxons formed a new, larger, settlement across the Itchen
centred on what is now the St Mary's area of the city. The
settlement was known as Hamwic, which evolved into Hamtun and
then Hampton. Archaeological excavations of this site have
uncovered one of the best collections of Saxon artefacts in
Europe. It is from this town that the county of Hampshire gets
its name.

And there on the Hamwic sea-shore, an enterprising Angle-cum-Saxon
devised the HamSandwic.

--
Paul

Jerry Friedman

2019-09-20 13:46:29 UTC

Post by Paul Wolff
On Thu, 19 Sep 2019, at 23:20:06, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"

...

   Early Southampton
   ....
   The Anglo-Saxons formed a new, larger, settlement across the Itchen
   centred on what is now the St Mary's area of the city. The
   settlement was known as Hamwic, which evolved into Hamtun and
   then Hampton. Archaeological excavations of this site have
   uncovered one of the best collections of Saxon artefacts in
   Europe. It is from this town that the county of Hampshire gets
   its name.

And there on the Hamwic sea-shore, an enterprising Angle-cum-Saxon
devised the HamSandwic.

Barely a hundred miles from Rye.

--
Jerry Friedman

Paul Wolff

2019-09-20 15:48:14 UTC

On Fri, 20 Sep 2019, at 07:46:29, Jerry Friedman

Post by Jerry Friedman

Post by Paul Wolff
On Thu, 19 Sep 2019, at 23:20:06, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"

...

And there on the Hamwic sea-shore, an enterprising Angle-cum-Saxon
devised the HamSandwic.

Barely a hundred miles from Rye.

Or would you prefer dressing with that?

--
Paul

Tony Cooper

2019-09-20 18:21:43 UTC

On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 16:48:14 +0100, Paul Wolff

Post by Paul Wolff
On Fri, 20 Sep 2019, at 07:46:29, Jerry Friedman

Post by Jerry Friedman

Post by Paul Wolff
On Thu, 19 Sep 2019, at 23:20:06, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"

...

And there on the Hamwic sea-shore, an enterprising Angle-cum-Saxon
devised the HamSandwic.

Barely a hundred miles from Rye.

Or would you prefer dressing with that?

Too much dressing and it might be coming through the rye.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

Peter Moylan

2019-09-18 23:52:51 UTC

Post by Peter T. Daniels
(I wouldn't be at all surprised if "Hampshire" goes back to an earlier
"Hamshire," and even "Hampton" to "Hamton.") (I wish I could ask Eric
Hamp.)

Hampshire comes from "Southamptonshire"

Where hurricanes hardly happen.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

CDB

2019-09-18 16:44:31 UTC

as-meltdown-over-spelling-hamster-has-mother

Post by l***@yahoo.com
Quote: "The young woman kept saying, 'I thought what I wrote was
perfect and she j ust made all these changes and then had the
nerve to tell me I was spelling words wrong when I know they are
right because that is how I have always s pelled them.'”

I sympathize with the young woman. I've been guilty of writing
"Chinese Hampster" myself in work intended for publication, and
having it corrected by someone who worked on the beasts. "Hampster"
may not be right, but it _looks_ right.

Doesn't. But it does help confirm the observation, long ago, that so
many of you denied at the time, that intrusive stop consonants can
and do intrude between nasals and following consonants.
(I wouldn't be at all surprised if "Hampshire" goes back to an
earlier "Hamshire," and even "Hampton" to "Hamton.") (I wish I could
ask Eric Hamp.)

"Hampshire" goes back to "Hamtūnscīre" in the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle, a
little over a thousand years ago (it's right at the end of the quotation).

"Mille .xi. [1] Hēr on þissum ġēare sende se cyning and his witan tō ðām
here and ġyrndon friðes, and him gafol and metsunge behēton wið þām ðe
hī hiora herġunge ġeswicon. [2] Hī hæfdon þā ofergān (.i.) Ēastengle and
(.ii.) Ēastsexe and (.iii.) Middelsexe and (.iiii.) Oxenafordscīre and
(.v.) Grantabricscīre and (.vi.) Heortfordscīre and (.vii.)
Buccingahāmscīre and (.viii.) Bedefordscīre and (.ix.) healfe
Huntadūnscīre and miċel (.x.) on Hamtūnscīre ..."

(In this year the King and his counsellors sent to the [Viking] Army and
desired peace, and promised them tribute and provisions if they would
cease their harrying. At that point they had overrun East Anglia and
Essex and Middlesex and Oxfordshire and Cambridgeshire and Hertfordshire
and Buckinghamshire and Bedfordshire and half Huntingdonshire and much
of Hampshire ...)

http://www.oldenglishaerobics.net/aelfheah.php

Peter T. Daniels

2019-09-18 17:53:00 UTC

as-meltdown-over-spelling-hamster-has-mother

I sympathize with the young woman. I've been guilty of writing
"Chinese Hampster" myself in work intended for publication, and
having it corrected by someone who worked on the beasts. "Hampster"
may not be right, but it _looks_ right.

Doesn't. But it does help confirm the observation, long ago, that so
many of you denied at the time, that intrusive stop consonants can
and do intrude between nasals and following consonants.
(I wouldn't be at all surprised if "Hampshire" goes back to an
earlier "Hamshire," and even "Hampton" to "Hamton.") (I wish I could
ask Eric Hamp.)

"Hampshire" goes back to "Hamtūnscīre" in the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle, a
little over a thousand years ago (it's right at the end of the quotation).

Aha! The p is indeed intrusive!

Post by l***@yahoo.com
"Mille .xi. [1] Hēr on þissum ġēare sende se cyning and his witan tō ðām
here and ġyrndon friðes, and him gafol and metsunge behēton wið þām ðe
hī hiora herġunge ġeswicon. [2] Hī hæfdon þā ofergān (.i.) Ēastengle and
(.ii.) Ēastsexe and (.iii.) Middelsexe and (.iiii.) Oxenafordscīre and
(.v.) Grantabricscīre and (.vi.) Heortfordscīre and (.vii.)
Buccingahāmscīre and (.viii.) Bedefordscīre and (.ix.) healfe
Huntadūnscīre and miċel (.x.) on Hamtūnscīre ..."
(In this year the King and his counsellors sent to the [Viking] Army and
desired peace, and promised them tribute and provisions if they would
cease their harrying. At that point they had overrun East Anglia and
Essex and Middlesex and Oxfordshire and Cambridgeshire and Hertfordshire
and Buckinghamshire and Bedfordshire and half Huntingdonshire and much
of Hampshire ...)
http://www.oldenglishaerobics.net/aelfheah.php

Paul Wolff

2019-09-18 19:26:28 UTC

as-meltdown-over-spelling-hamster-has-mother

I sympathize with the young woman. I've been guilty of writing
"Chinese Hampster" myself in work intended for publication, and
having it corrected by someone who worked on the beasts. "Hampster"
may not be right, but it _looks_ right.

Hampster, Dumpster. They're much of a muchness, and consult 'Alice' for
that one.

Post by Peter T. Daniels
Doesn't. But it does help confirm the observation, long ago, that so
many of you denied at the time, that intrusive stop consonants can
and do intrude between nasals and following consonants.
(I wouldn't be at all surprised if "Hampshire" goes back to an
earlier "Hamshire," and even "Hampton" to "Hamton.") (I wish I could
ask Eric Hamp.)

"Hampshire" goes back to "Hamt?nsc?re" in the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle, a
little over a thousand years ago (it's right at the end of the quotation).
"Mille .xi. [1] H?r on þissum ??are sende se cyning and his witan t? ð?m
here and ?yrndon friðes, and him gafol and metsunge beh?ton wið þ?m ðe
h? hiora her?unge ?eswicon. [2] H? hæfdon þ? oferg?n (.i.) ?astengle
and
(.ii.) ?astsexe and (.iii.) Middelsexe and (.iiii.) Oxenafordsc?re and
(.v.) Grantabricsc?re and (.vi.) Heortfordsc?re and (.vii.)
Buccingah?msc?re and (.viii.) Bedefordsc?re and (.ix.) healfe
Huntad?nsc?re and mi?el (.x.) on Hamt?nsc?re ..."
(In this year the King and his counsellors sent to the [Viking] Army and
desired peace, and promised them tribute and provisions if they would
cease their harrying. At that point they had overrun East Anglia and
Essex and Middlesex and Oxfordshire and Cambridgeshire and Hertfordshire
and Buckinghamshire and Bedfordshire and half Huntingdonshire and much
of Hampshire ...)
http://www.oldenglishaerobics.net/aelfheah.php

Geographically, the county of Northamptonshire, county town Northampton,
fits into that account much more easily than today's county of Hampshire
in which we find the city of Southampton (as noted by the other
Charles).

For readers not so familiar with the counties of southern England, East
Anglia (Norfolk and Suffolk), Essex, Cambridgeshire, Bedfordshire,
Hertfordshire, Middlesex, Buckinghamshire and Oxfordshire are contiguous
amongst themselves, and also with Northamptonshire to their north.
Hampshire, wherein lies Alfred's capital Winchester, is far away to the
south. I bet that Hampshire was Northants. And the other, southern
Hampshire is abbreviated Hants, by the way.

--
Paul

CDB

2019-09-19 13:32:19 UTC

as-meltdown-over-spelling-hamster-has-mother

Post by l***@yahoo.com
was perfect and she j ust made all these changes and then had
the nerve to tell me I was spelling words wrong when I know
they are right because that is how I have always s pelled
them.'”

I sympathize with the young woman. I've been guilty of writing
"Chinese Hampster" myself in work intended for publication,
and having it corrected by someone who worked on the beasts.
"Hampster" may not be right, but it _looks_ right.

Hampster, Dumpster. They're much of a muchness, and consult 'Alice'
for that one.

Post by Peter T. Daniels
Doesn't. But it does help confirm the observation, long ago, that
so many of you denied at the time, that intrusive stop consonants
can and do intrude between nasals and following consonants.
(I wouldn't be at all surprised if "Hampshire" goes back to an
earlier "Hamshire," and even "Hampton" to "Hamton.") (I wish I
could ask Eric Hamp.)

"Hampshire" goes back to "Hamt?nsc?re" in the Anglo-Saxon
Chronicle, a little over a thousand years ago (it's right at the
end of the quotation).
"Mille .xi. [1] H?r on þissum ??are sende se cyning and his witan
t? ð?m here and ?yrndon friðes, and him gafol and metsunge beh?ton
wið þ?m ðe h? hiora her?unge ?eswicon. [2] H? hæfdon þ? oferg?n
(.i.) ?astengle and (.ii.) ?astsexe and (.iii.) Middelsexe and
(.iiii.) Oxenafordsc?re and (.v.) Grantabricsc?re and (.vi.)
Heortfordsc?re and (.vii.) Buccingah?msc?re and (.viii.)
Bedefordsc?re and (.ix.) healfe Huntad?nsc?re and mi?el (.x.) on
Hamt?nsc?re ..."
(In this year the King and his counsellors sent to the [Viking]
Army and desired peace, and promised them tribute and provisions if
they would cease their harrying. At that point they had overrun
East Anglia and Essex and Middlesex and Oxfordshire and
Cambridgeshire and Hertfordshire and Buckinghamshire and
Bedfordshire and half Huntingdonshire and much of Hampshire ...)
http://www.oldenglishaerobics.net/aelfheah.php

Geographically, the county of Northamptonshire, county town
Northampton, fits into that account much more easily than today's
county of Hampshire in which we find the city of Southampton (as
noted by the other Charles).
For readers not so familiar with the counties of southern England,
East Anglia (Norfolk and Suffolk), Essex, Cambridgeshire,
Bedfordshire, Hertfordshire, Middlesex, Buckinghamshire and
Oxfordshire are contiguous amongst themselves, and also with
Northamptonshire to their north. Hampshire, wherein lies Alfred's
capital Winchester, is far away to the south. I bet that Hampshire
was Northants. And the other, southern Hampshire is abbreviated
Hants, by the way.

We all remember the Vicar of Salisbury.

But it appears that you are quite right. The Chronicle goes on to say
"and be sūþan Temese ealle Kentingas and Sūðsexe and Hæstingas and
Sūðrīġe and Bearrocscīre and Hamtūnscīre and miċel on Wiltūnscīre." I
stopped when I came to the first instance of the county name.

Peter Moylan

2019-09-19 13:45:39 UTC

Post by CDB
We all remember the Vicar of Salisbury.

And, of course, the Vicar of Dibley. Who has never, as far as I know,
been spotted without her pampshire.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

Paul Wolff

2019-09-19 14:42:26 UTC

as-meltdown-over-spelling-hamster-has-mother

I sympathize with the young woman. I've been guilty of writing
"Chinese Hampster" myself in work intended for publication,
and having it corrected by someone who worked on the beasts.
"Hampster" may not be right, but it _looks_ right.

Hampster, Dumpster. They're much of a muchness, and consult 'Alice'
for that one.

Post by Peter T. Daniels
Doesn't. But it does help confirm the observation, long ago, that
so many of you denied at the time, that intrusive stop consonants
can and do intrude between nasals and following consonants.
(I wouldn't be at all surprised if "Hampshire" goes back to an
earlier "Hamshire," and even "Hampton" to "Hamton.") (I wish I
could ask Eric Hamp.)

"Hampshire" goes back to "Hamt?nsc?re" in the Anglo-Saxon
Chronicle, a little over a thousand years ago (it's right at the
end of the quotation).
"Mille .xi. [1] H?r on þissum ??are sende se cyning and his witan
t? ð?m here and ?yrndon friðes, and him gafol and metsunge beh?ton
wið þ?m ðe h? hiora her?unge ?eswicon. [2] H? hæfdon þ? oferg?n
(.i.) ?astengle and (.ii.) ?astsexe and (.iii.) Middelsexe and
(.iiii.) Oxenafordsc?re and (.v.) Grantabricsc?re and (.vi.)
Heortfordsc?re and (.vii.) Buccingah?msc?re and (.viii.)
Bedefordsc?re and (.ix.) healfe Huntad?nsc?re and mi?el (.x.) on
Hamt?nsc?re ..."
(In this year the King and his counsellors sent to the [Viking]
Army and desired peace, and promised them tribute and provisions if
they would cease their harrying. At that point they had overrun
East Anglia and Essex and Middlesex and Oxfordshire and
Cambridgeshire and Hertfordshire and Buckinghamshire and
Bedfordshire and half Huntingdonshire and much of Hampshire ...)
http://www.oldenglishaerobics.net/aelfheah.php

Geographically, the county of Northamptonshire, county town
Northampton, fits into that account much more easily than today's
county of Hampshire in which we find the city of Southampton (as
noted by the other Charles).
For readers not so familiar with the counties of southern England,
East Anglia (Norfolk and Suffolk), Essex, Cambridgeshire,
Bedfordshire, Hertfordshire, Middlesex, Buckinghamshire and
Oxfordshire are contiguous amongst themselves, and also with
Northamptonshire to their north. Hampshire, wherein lies Alfred's
capital Winchester, is far away to the south. I bet that Hampshire
was Northants. And the other, southern Hampshire is abbreviated
Hants, by the way.

We all remember the Vicar of Salisbury.
But it appears that you are quite right. The Chronicle goes on to say
"and be s?þan Temese ealle Kentingas and S?ðsexe and Hæstingas and
S?ðr??e and Bearrocsc?re and Hamt?nsc?re and mi?el on Wilt?nsc?re." I
stopped when I came to the first instance of the county name.

That's good to know (I mean about my being right!).

I failed to add myself that the initial group of contiguous counties,
from East Anglia's two in the East to Oxfordshire in the West, all lay
north of the Thames, which west of London formed the boundary between
Mercia to the north and Wessex to the south. Oxfordshire,
Buckinghamshire and Middlesex were the three Mercian counties bordering
the north or left bank of the river.

--
Paul

Quinn C

2019-09-18 17:15:17 UTC

Post by l***@yahoo.com
the nerve to tell me I was spelling words wrong when I know they are
right because that is how I have always spelled them.'

That attitude in people - it can't be wrong because that's how I'm
doing it - is exasperating, not only regarding language.

I think most of the times when people reject the idea that they just
said something racist or sexist, this is the underlying issue. "We're
not xenophobic, we just don't want these strangers here." (from a radio
interview.)

--
...an explanatory principle - like "gravity" or "instinct" -
really explains nothing. Itâ€™s a sort of conventional agreement
between scientists to stop trying to explain things at a
certain point. -- Gregory Bateson

Katy Jennison

2019-09-18 19:10:29 UTC

Post by l***@yahoo.com
the nerve to tell me I was spelling words wrong when I know they are
right because that is how I have always spelled them.'

That attitude in people - it can't be wrong because that's how I'm
doing it - is exasperating, not only regarding language.

What bothers me more is that presumably this young lady graduated high
school without having had her attitude to being corrected corrected.

--
Katy Jennison

Paul Wolff

2019-09-18 19:28:09 UTC

On Wed, 18 Sep 2019, at 20:10:29, Katy Jennison

Post by Katy Jennison

Post by l***@yahoo.com
the nerve to tell me I was spelling words wrong when I know they are
right because that is how I have always spelled them.'

That attitude in people - it can't be wrong because that's how I'm
doing it - is exasperating, not only regarding language.

What bothers me more is that presumably this young lady graduated high
school without having had her attitude to being corrected corrected.

Ooh, are you speaking American now? Not a 'from' in sight!

--
Paul

Ken Blake

2019-09-18 19:39:03 UTC

On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 20:28:09 +0100, Paul Wolff

Post by Paul Wolff
On Wed, 18 Sep 2019, at 20:10:29, Katy Jennison

Post by Katy Jennison

Post by l***@yahoo.com
the nerve to tell me I was spelling words wrong when I know they are
right because that is how I have always spelled them.'

That attitude in people - it can't be wrong because that's how I'm
doing it - is exasperating, not only regarding language.

What bothers me more is that presumably this young lady graduated high
school without having had her attitude to being corrected corrected.

Ooh, are you speaking American now? Not a 'from' in sight!

Nor a "was."

Peter T. Daniels

2019-09-18 21:04:23 UTC

Post by Paul Wolff
On Wed, 18 Sep 2019, at 20:10:29, Katy Jennison

Post by Katy Jennison

Post by l***@yahoo.com
the nerve to tell me I was spelling words wrong when I know they are
right because that is how I have always spelled them.'

That attitude in people - it can't be wrong because that's how I'm
doing it - is exasperating, not only regarding language.

What bothers me more is that presumably this young lady graduated high
school without having had her attitude to being corrected corrected.

Ooh, are you speaking American now? Not a 'from' in sight!

No, Over Here we say "graduated from high school."

Where _do_ these misconceptions come from?

Prescriptivists used to insist on "was graduated from high school," but
maybe even Eric doesn't try to resuscitate that one.

l***@yahoo.com

2019-09-18 18:47:52 UTC

I wouldn't be surprised if she also thought, as a kid, that since "hamster" and "hamper" sound similar, they should both be spelled with a P.

Just as many people get frustrated about the fact that "separate" and "desperate" do not have the same numbers of Es.

Lenona.

RH Draney

2019-09-18 22:27:49 UTC

Post by l***@yahoo.com
I wouldn't be surprised if she also thought, as a kid, that since "hamster" and "hamper" sound similar, they should both be spelled with a P.
Just as many people get frustrated about the fact that "separate" and "desperate" do not have the same numbers of Es.

After spending a couple of hours driving over "unimproved" roads (an
understated word if ever there was one) to reach the railroad siding at
Separ, New Mexico, it would be quite a feat for me to accidentally
misspell "separate"....r

Peter Moylan

2019-09-18 23:58:39 UTC

Post by l***@yahoo.com
I wouldn't be surprised if she also thought, as a kid, that since
"hamster" and "hamper" sound similar, they should both be spelled
with a P.
Just as many people get frustrated about the fact that "separate" and
"desperate" do not have the same numbers of Es.

Just as many people have trouble spelling pluscule and minuscule.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

Quinn C

2019-09-19 04:00:23 UTC

Post by l***@yahoo.com
I wouldn't be surprised if she also thought, as a kid, that since
"hamster" and "hamper" sound similar, they should both be spelled
with a P.
Just as many people get frustrated about the fact that "separate" and
"desperate" do not have the same numbers of Es.

Just as many people have trouble spelling pluscule and minuscule.

You mean maxiscule and miniscule?

--
For spirits when they please
Can either sex assume, or both; so soft
And uncompounded is their essence pure,
-- Milton, Paradise Lost

RH Draney

2019-09-19 05:14:16 UTC

Post by l***@yahoo.com
I wouldn't be surprised if she also thought, as a kid, that since
"hamster" and "hamper" sound similar, they should both be spelled
with a P.
Just as many people get frustrated about the fact that "separate" and
"desperate" do not have the same numbers of Es.

Just as many people have trouble spelling pluscule and minuscule.

You mean maxiscule and miniscule?

That's sacrelige!...r

Lewis

2019-09-19 08:27:04 UTC

Post by RH Draney

Post by l***@yahoo.com
I wouldn't be surprised if she also thought, as a kid, that since
"hamster" and "hamper" sound similar, they should both be spelled
with a P.
Just as many people get frustrated about the fact that "separate" and
"desperate" do not have the same numbers of Es.

Just as many people have trouble spelling pluscule and minuscule.

You mean maxiscule and miniscule?

That's sacrelige!...r

You left out a letter, it's sacredlige!

--
"He has no enemies, but is intensely disliked by his friends.." Oscar
Wilde

Katy Jennison

2019-09-19 16:23:04 UTC

Post by l***@yahoo.com
I wouldn't be surprised if she also thought, as a kid, that since
"hamster" and "hamper" sound similar, they should both be spelled
with a P.
Just as many people get frustrated about the fact that "separate" and
"desperate" do not have the same numbers of Es.

Just as many people have trouble spelling pluscule and minuscule.

You mean maxiscule and miniscule?

That's sacrelige!...r

You left out a letter, it's sacredlige!

Sacriledge, shirley.

--
Katy Jennison

Lewis

2019-09-19 08:26:24 UTC

Post by l***@yahoo.com
I wouldn't be surprised if she also thought, as a kid, that since
"hamster" and "hamper" sound similar, they should both be spelled
with a P.
Just as many people get frustrated about the fact that "separate" and
"desperate" do not have the same numbers of Es.

Just as many people have trouble spelling pluscule and minuscule.

I don't know pluscule (nor does my dictionary), but minuscule isn't a
problem, though I guess most people assume it has to be MINIscule?

--
G is for GEORGE smothered under a rug
H is for HECTOR done in by a thug

Ken Blake

2019-09-19 17:03:22 UTC

On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 08:26:24 -0000 (UTC), Lewis

Post by Lewis

Post by l***@yahoo.com
I wouldn't be surprised if she also thought, as a kid, that since
"hamster" and "hamper" sound similar, they should both be spelled
with a P.
Just as many people get frustrated about the fact that "separate" and
"desperate" do not have the same numbers of Es.

Just as many people have trouble spelling pluscule and minuscule.

I don't know pluscule (

Not even core pluscule.

Adam Funk

2019-09-20 07:31:15 UTC

Post by Lewis

Post by l***@yahoo.com
I wouldn't be surprised if she also thought, as a kid, that since
"hamster" and "hamper" sound similar, they should both be spelled
with a P.
Just as many people get frustrated about the fact that "separate" and
"desperate" do not have the same numbers of Es.

Just as many people have trouble spelling pluscule and minuscule.

I don't know pluscule (nor does my dictionary), but minuscule isn't a
problem, though I guess most people assume it has to be MINIscule?

By analogy with "miniture", of course.

--
A drug is not bad. A drug is a chemical compound. The problem comes in
when people who take drugs treat them like a license to behave like an
asshole. ---Frank Zappa

CDB

2019-09-19 13:31:23 UTC

Post by l***@yahoo.com
I wouldn't be surprised if she also thought, as a kid, that since
"hamster" and "hamper" sound similar, they should both be spelled
with a P.
Just as many people get frustrated about the fact that "separate"
and "desperate" do not have the same numbers of Es.

Just as many people have trouble spelling pluscule and minuscule.

Yo mamma booty so big, it all spelt with pluscules.

CDB

2019-09-19 13:31:00 UTC

Post by l***@yahoo.com
I wouldn't be surprised if she also thought, as a kid, that since
"hamster" and "hamper" sound similar, they should both be spelled
with a P.

It may come down to pronunciation. There is no [p] in my [h&***@rz],
AFAICT, and so no temptation to insert one in writing.

Post by l***@yahoo.com
Just as many people get frustrated about the fact that "separate" and
"desperate" do not have the same numbers of Es.

Joseph C. Fineman

2019-09-18 21:11:19 UTC

Post by l***@yahoo.com
"The young woman kept saying, 'I thought what I wrote was perfect and
she just made all these changes and then had the nerve to tell me I
was spelling words wrong when I know they are right because that is
how I have always spelled them.'”

It's a mumpsimus!

--
--- Joe Fineman ***@verizon.net

||: Why tell lies, when the truth is so much more offensive? :||

Stefan Ram

2019-09-20 02:14:17 UTC

Post by l***@yahoo.com
when I know they are right because that is how I have always

When one is a dependent employee, one is expected to follow
the guidelines of the employer for the execution of the work.

Whether those guidelines require "hamster" or "hampster" -
the employees have to implement them because this was so
agreed in their employment contract.

It does not matter at all what is "right in the English
language" or "right in the mind of the employee".

(Companies sometimes make intentional "spelling errors" so
as to attract attention or to create a corporate identity.)

The immediate supervisor represents the will of the company
towards the subordinate. So, when he asks the subordinate to
write someting in a specific way, this has everything to do
with the employment contract and nothing with the English
language.

Tony Cooper

2019-09-20 03:18:02 UTC