Cafe

On Tue, 01 Dec 2015 01:03:06 -0500, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
I pronounce the word "cafe" as "caff-fay". I've heard the word
shorted to "caff" in UK films. But, tonight, in an episode of "Pie in
the Sky", Henry pronounced it "kayff" when speak of a particular type
of meal one would get in a cafe.

I've heard all three, though I think "caff" is mainly BrE.

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

Peter Duncanson [BrE]

2015-12-01 09:59:02 UTC

Post by Steve Hayes
On Tue, 01 Dec 2015 01:03:06 -0500, Tony Cooper

I've heard all three, though I think "caff" is mainly BrE.

I can't speak of current usage, but last century in BrE, "caff" and
"kayff" were jocular pronunciations which carried meaning. A "caff" was
a downmarket cafe, and a "kayff" was more upmarket. The
pretentious-sounding pronunciation "kayff" went with the alleged
pretention of the place.

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

Tony Cooper

2015-12-01 14:12:15 UTC

Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]

On Tue, 01 Dec 2015 09:59:02 +0000, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"

Post by Steve Hayes
On Tue, 01 Dec 2015 01:03:06 -0500, Tony Cooper

I've heard all three, though I think "caff" is mainly BrE.

That could well be it. Henry, a chef, may have been commenting on a
cafe claiming to be serving restaurant food.

The episode was filmed sometime before 1994 and 1997. It takes a
while for the shows to get over here.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

Oliver Cromm

2015-12-03 22:48:19 UTC

Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]

Post by Steve Hayes
On Tue, 01 Dec 2015 01:03:06 -0500, Tony Cooper

I've heard all three, though I think "caff" is mainly BrE.

It is beyond me how not understanding the meaning of the accent
and then reading the word as normal English can be (mock)
pretentious.

My understanding of pretentiousness is a false sense of
superiority based on special knowledge. The unwarranted nature can
be reinforced if the knowledge is brittle and applied wrongly, but
the pronunciation "kayff" doesn't apply any special knowledge and
sounds simply uneducated to me.

Now if you would say "kayff", but write Calph, that might get us
somewhere.

--
ASCII to ASCII, DOS to DOS

GordonD

2015-12-05 10:52:51 UTC

Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]

Post by Steve Hayes
On Tue, 01 Dec 2015 01:03:06 -0500, Tony Cooper

I've heard all three, though I think "caff" is mainly BrE.

It is beyond me how not understanding the meaning of the accent
and then reading the word as normal English can be (mock)
pretentious.
My understanding of pretentiousness is a false sense of
superiority based on special knowledge. The unwarranted nature can
be reinforced if the knowledge is brittle and applied wrongly, but
the pronunciation "kayff" doesn't apply any special knowledge and
sounds simply uneducated to me.
Now if you would say "kayff", but write Calph, that might get us
somewhere.

<smile>

Apologies if this point has already been made, but a Transport Cafe
(pronounced "caff") was the UK equivalent of the US Truck Stop - a
roadside building where long-distance lorry drivers could get a greasy
fry-up and a cup of tea the consistency of treacle, usually with three
or four sugars. In 1950s films they would often also offer a lift to a
young girl on her way to London.

These have presumably become less common now that there are motorways
everywhere; drivers now stop at Motorway Services where in addition to
food they can refuel the lorry, buy a present for the missus and stock
up on Yorkie bars.

--
Gordon Davie
Edinburgh, Scotland

Peter T. Daniels

2015-12-05 14:20:15 UTC

Post by GordonD
Apologies if this point has already been made, but a Transport Cafe
(pronounced "caff") was the UK equivalent of the US Truck Stop - a
roadside building where long-distance lorry drivers could get a greasy
fry-up and a cup of tea the consistency of treacle, usually with three
or four sugars. In 1950s films they would often also offer a lift to a
young girl on her way to London.
These have presumably become less common now that there are motorways
everywhere; drivers now stop at Motorway Services where in addition to
food they can refuel the lorry, buy a present for the missus and stock
up on Yorkie bars.

Truck stops also have gas stations and, in folklore at least, showering
facilities. They were indistinguishable, except perhaps in grunginess,
from today's expressway "oases" or "rest stops."

GordonD

2015-12-05 17:42:52 UTC

Truck stops also have gas stations and, in folklore at least, showering
facilities. They were indistinguishable, except perhaps in grunginess,
from today's expressway "oases" or "rest stops."

Motorway Services have those. They're usually on both sides of the
road, with a footbridge linking the two.

--
Gordon Davie
Edinburgh, Scotland

Tony Cooper

2015-12-05 18:42:49 UTC

On Sat, 5 Dec 2015 06:20:15 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"

Truck stops also have gas stations and, in folklore at least, showering
facilities. They were indistinguishable, except perhaps in grunginess,
from today's expressway "oases" or "rest stops."

The truck stops in Florida along I-95 and I-75 are huge, clean and
sparkly affairs with full-service restaurants, large gift shops, and
extensive facilities for truckers. The facilities for truckers
include showers, laundry rooms, television rooms, and phone rooms.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

Garrett Wollman

2015-12-05 18:43:27 UTC

Post by Peter T. Daniels
Truck stops also have gas stations and, in folklore at least, showering
facilities. They were indistinguishable, except perhaps in grunginess,
from today's expressway "oases" or "rest stops."

"Oasis" is, so far as I know, exclusive to the Illinois State Toll
Highway Authority. The generic term is "service area", but seemingly
every state that has them calls them something different. ("Plaza"
here in Massachusetts.) Note that commercial service areas are
prohibited on highways built with Interstate Highway System funds: any
that you see on non-toll Interstates were grandfathered in. A "rest
area" is a place to stop, walk around, and walk one's companion
animals, and has at least a toilet, sometimes also vending machines
and tourist information. If there are no facilities -- just a place
to park your truck and nap for a few hours -- it's a "parking area".
(Many states have turned their rest areas into parking areas as a
result of self-inflicted budget crises.)

-GAWollman

--
Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft
***@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program
Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption
my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993

Peter T. Daniels

2015-12-05 20:54:30 UTC

Then were weren't talking about "rest areas," were we, let alone "parking
areas."

Tony Cooper

2015-12-05 21:04:40 UTC

In Florida, on the (toll) Turnpike, they are "Service Plazas".

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

Robert Bannister

2015-12-02 06:47:39 UTC

Post by Steve Hayes
On Tue, 01 Dec 2015 01:03:06 -0500, Tony Cooper

I've heard all three, though I think "caff" is mainly BrE.

I'd have thought the lesser used "cayf" was British too. I used all
three terms until I left England. Never used nor heard anything apart
from "caff-ay" since living here.

--
Robert Bannister
Perth, Western Australia

Garrett Wollman

2015-12-02 18:12:52 UTC

Post by Robert Bannister
I'd have thought the lesser used "cayf" was British too. I used all
three terms until I left England. Never used nor heard anything apart
from "caff-ay" since living here.

Stress on which syllable?

-GAWollman

Tony Cooper

2015-12-02 19:39:10 UTC

Post by Robert Bannister
I'd have thought the lesser used "cayf" was British too. I used all
three terms until I left England. Never used nor heard anything apart
from "caff-ay" since living here.

Stress on which syllable?
-GAWollman

In my case, the second.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

Katy Jennison

2015-12-02 20:03:39 UTC

Post by Robert Bannister
I'd have thought the lesser used "cayf" was British too. I used all
three terms until I left England. Never used nor heard anything apart
from "caff-ay" since living here.

Stress on which syllable?
-GAWollman

In my case, the second.

In BrE, usually the first; stress on the second would be likely to
signal either pretension or jocularity.

--
Katy Jennison

Tony Cooper

2015-12-02 20:17:26 UTC

On Wed, 2 Dec 2015 20:03:39 +0000, Katy Jennison

Post by Robert Bannister
I'd have thought the lesser used "cayf" was British too. I used all
three terms until I left England. Never used nor heard anything apart
from "caff-ay" since living here.

Stress on which syllable?
-GAWollman

In my case, the second.

In BrE, usually the first; stress on the second would be likely to
signal either pretension or jocularity.

I'm re-thinking where I place the emphasis. The "caff" comes out
strongly and the "ay" kinda trails behind, but it does seem that there
is emphasis on the "ay".

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

Steve Hayes

2015-12-03 04:13:50 UTC

On Wed, 02 Dec 2015 15:17:26 -0500, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 2 Dec 2015 20:03:39 +0000, Katy Jennison

Post by Robert Bannister
I'd have thought the lesser used "cayf" was British too. I used all
three terms until I left England. Never used nor heard anything apart
from "caff-ay" since living here.

Stress on which syllable?
-GAWollman

In my case, the second.

In BrE, usually the first; stress on the second would be likely to
signal either pretension or jocularity.

I'm re-thinking where I place the emphasis. The "caff" comes out
strongly and the "ay" kinda trails behind, but it does seem that there
is emphasis on the "ay".

The stress falls on the second syllable in the logger song, but that
may be poetic licence.

As I sat down one evening, twas in a small cafe,
A forty year old waitress, to me these words did say:

"I see you are a logger, and not just a common bum,
'Cause no one but a logger stirs his coffee with his thumb.

My lover was a logger, there's none like him today;
If you poured whisky on it, he'd eat a bale of hay

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

Ross

2015-12-03 05:06:33 UTC

Post by Steve Hayes
On Wed, 02 Dec 2015 15:17:26 -0500, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 2 Dec 2015 20:03:39 +0000, Katy Jennison

Post by Robert Bannister
I'd have thought the lesser used "cayf" was British too. I used all
three terms until I left England. Never used nor heard anything apart
from "caff-ay" since living here.

Stress on which syllable?
-GAWollman

In my case, the second.

In BrE, usually the first; stress on the second would be likely to
signal either pretension or jocularity.

I'm re-thinking where I place the emphasis. The "caff" comes out
strongly and the "ay" kinda trails behind, but it does seem that there
is emphasis on the "ay".

The stress falls on the second syllable in the logger song, but that
may be poetic licence.

No, it's because that's the normal stress pattern in North American;
that's where they have "loggers" and where the song comes from.

I've never said it any other way, and it didn't occur to me that
my pronunciation might be out of line with that prevailing in NZ.
Must check.

Post by Steve Hayes
As I sat down one evening, twas in a small cafe,
"I see you are a logger, and not just a common bum,
'Cause no one but a logger stirs his coffee with his thumb.
My lover was a logger, there's none like him today;
If you poured whisky on it, he'd eat a bale of hay
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

Charles Bishop

2015-12-03 19:07:36 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 2 Dec 2015 20:03:39 +0000, Katy Jennison

Post by Robert Bannister
I'd have thought the lesser used "cayf" was British too. I used all
three terms until I left England. Never used nor heard anything apart
from "caff-ay" since living here.

Stress on which syllable?
-GAWollman

In my case, the second.

In BrE, usually the first; stress on the second would be likely to
signal either pretension or jocularity.

I'm re-thinking where I place the emphasis. The "caff" comes out
strongly and the "ay" kinda trails behind, but it does seem that there
is emphasis on the "ay".

For me too, as much as I can analyze what I say when I'm saying it.

KA fay

--
charles

John Varela

2015-12-04 01:55:10 UTC

On Wed, 2 Dec 2015 20:17:26 UTC, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 2 Dec 2015 20:03:39 +0000, Katy Jennison

Post by Robert Bannister
I'd have thought the lesser used "cayf" was British too. I used all
three terms until I left England. Never used nor heard anything apart
from "caff-ay" since living here.

Stress on which syllable?
-GAWollman

In my case, the second.

In BrE, usually the first; stress on the second would be likely to
signal either pretension or jocularity.

I'm re-thinking where I place the emphasis. The "caff" comes out
strongly and the "ay" kinda trails behind, but it does seem that there
is emphasis on the "ay".

I'll bet you're pronouncing it with equal stress. I'm pretty sure
that's how I pronounce it, but it's hard to tell.

--
John Varela

Tony Cooper

2015-12-04 03:34:05 UTC

Post by John Varela
On Wed, 2 Dec 2015 20:17:26 UTC, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 2 Dec 2015 20:03:39 +0000, Katy Jennison

Post by Robert Bannister
I'd have thought the lesser used "cayf" was British too. I used all
three terms until I left England. Never used nor heard anything apart
from "caff-ay" since living here.

Stress on which syllable?
-GAWollman

In my case, the second.

In BrE, usually the first; stress on the second would be likely to
signal either pretension or jocularity.

I'm re-thinking where I place the emphasis. The "caff" comes out
strongly and the "ay" kinda trails behind, but it does seem that there
is emphasis on the "ay".

I'll bet you're pronouncing it with equal stress. I'm pretty sure
that's how I pronounce it, but it's hard to tell.

At this point, I'll go either way or all three. It's very difficult
to pronounce a word, by itself, and decide where the normal stress is.
It would be easier if I could listen to a tape where I used the word
without knowing I'd be listening for stress.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

John Varela

2015-12-04 21:34:38 UTC

On Fri, 4 Dec 2015 03:34:05 UTC, Tony Cooper

Post by John Varela
On Wed, 2 Dec 2015 20:17:26 UTC, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 2 Dec 2015 20:03:39 +0000, Katy Jennison

Post by Robert Bannister
I'd have thought the lesser used "cayf" was British too. I used all
three terms until I left England. Never used nor heard anything apart
from "caff-ay" since living here.

Stress on which syllable?
-GAWollman

In my case, the second.

In BrE, usually the first; stress on the second would be likely to
signal either pretension or jocularity.

I'm re-thinking where I place the emphasis. The "caff" comes out
strongly and the "ay" kinda trails behind, but it does seem that there
is emphasis on the "ay".

I'll bet you're pronouncing it with equal stress. I'm pretty sure
that's how I pronounce it, but it's hard to tell.

Exactly.

--
John Varela

Charles Bishop

2015-12-03 19:06:21 UTC

Post by Robert Bannister
I'd have thought the lesser used "cayf" was British too. I used all
three terms until I left England. Never used nor heard anything apart
from "caff-ay" since living here.

Stress on which syllable?
-GAWollman

In my case, the second.

In BrE, usually the first; stress on the second would be likely to
signal either pretension or jocularity.

Do you get a chance to shop at Tar-jzay?

charles, very high end, it is

Peter Moylan

2015-12-03 02:18:00 UTC

Post by Robert Bannister
I'd have thought the lesser used "cayf" was British too. I used all
three terms until I left England. Never used nor heard anything apart
from "caff-ay" since living here.

Stress on which syllable?

In Australian, the first. Some people do pronounce it the French way,
with equal stress on both syllables. I've never heard it stressed on the
second syllable.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

Traddict

2015-12-03 05:59:21 UTC

Post by Robert Bannister
I'd have thought the lesser used "cayf" was British too. I used all
three terms until I left England. Never used nor heard anything apart
from "caff-ay" since living here.

Stress on which syllable?

In Australian, the first. Some people do pronounce it the French way,
with equal stress on both syllables.

In French, the final (in this case, the second) syllable is stressed, though
the difference between stressed and unstressed syllables in general is less
marked than in English.

Post by Peter Moylan
I've never heard it stressed on the second syllable.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

Ross

2015-12-03 09:53:29 UTC

Post by Traddict

Post by Robert Bannister
I'd have thought the lesser used "cayf" was British too. I used all
three terms until I left England. Never used nor heard anything apart
from "caff-ay" since living here.

Stress on which syllable?

In Australian, the first. Some people do pronounce it the French way,
with equal stress on both syllables.

In French, the final (in this case, the second) syllable is stressed, though
the difference between stressed and unstressed syllables in general is less
marked than in English.

Perhaps it is this that leads to the English pronunciation in which
the second syllable is stressed, but the first retains the full [æ]
vowel. This may be one reason for Tony's uncertainty.

A quick poll of a few NZ friends this evening showed a roughly equal
division between CAFF-ay and caff-AY, with a certain reluctance to
be drawn on the question. I would put this down to the same causes.

Charles Bishop

2015-12-03 19:05:26 UTC

Post by Ross

Post by Traddict

Post by Robert Bannister
I'd have thought the lesser used "cayf" was British too. I used all
three terms until I left England. Never used nor heard anything apart
from "caff-ay" since living here.

Stress on which syllable?

In Australian, the first. Some people do pronounce it the French way,
with equal stress on both syllables.

In French, the final (in this case, the second) syllable is stressed, though
the difference between stressed and unstressed syllables in general is less
marked than in English.

Perhaps it is this that leads to the English pronunciation in which
the second syllable is stressed, but the first retains the full [æ]
vowel. This may be one reason for Tony's uncertainty.
A quick poll of a few NZ friends this evening showed a roughly equal
division between CAFF-ay and caff-AY, with a certain reluctance to
be drawn on the question. I would put this down to the same causes.

Can I weigh in

John Varela

2015-12-04 01:56:20 UTC

On Thu, 3 Dec 2015 19:05:26 UTC, Charles Bishop

Post by Charles Bishop

Post by Ross

groupe

Post by Robert Bannister
I'd have thought the lesser used "cayf" was British too. I used all
three terms until I left England. Never used nor heard anything apart
from "caff-ay" since living here.

Stress on which syllable?

In Australian, the first. Some people do pronounce it the French way,
with equal stress on both syllables.

In French, the final (in this case, the second) syllable is stressed, though
the difference between stressed and unstressed syllables in general is less
marked than in English.

Perhaps it is this that leads to the English pronunciation in which
the second syllable is stressed, but the first retains the full [µ]
vowel. This may be one reason for Tony's uncertainty.
A quick poll of a few NZ friends this evening showed a roughly equal
division between CAFF-ay and caff-AY, with a certain reluctance to
be drawn on the question. I would put this down to the same causes.

Can I weigh in

Sure.

--
John Varela

Robert Bannister

2015-12-03 02:39:29 UTC

Post by Robert Bannister
I'd have thought the lesser used "cayf" was British too. I used all
three terms until I left England. Never used nor heard anything apart
from "caff-ay" since living here.

Stress on which syllable?

The first except for humorous la-di-da effect.

--
Robert Bannister
Perth, Western Australia

Steve Hayes

2015-12-03 04:10:25 UTC

Post by Robert Bannister
I'd have thought the lesser used "cayf" was British too. I used all
three terms until I left England. Never used nor heard anything apart
from "caff-ay" since living here.

Stress on which syllable?

The first, in MyE.

"Caff" seems to be strictly BrE.

"Kaif" was (and may still be for all I know) the name given to the
student canteen at Rhodes University (which may now be called
somethimng else if the #rhodesmustfall movement has its way).

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

Peter T. Daniels

2015-12-03 04:51:01 UTC

Post by Steve Hayes

Post by Robert Bannister
I'd have thought the lesser used "cayf" was British too. I used all
three terms until I left England. Never used nor heard anything apart
from "caff-ay" since living here.

Stress on which syllable?

The first, in MyE.
"Caff" seems to be strictly BrE.
"Kaif" was (and may still be for all I know) the name given to the
student canteen at Rhodes University (which may now be called
somethimng else if the #rhodesmustfall movement has its way).

... which is happening here, too. There's a serious attempt at Princeton
to get Woodrow Wilson's name expunged from everything. (He was Governor
of New Jersey, president of Princeton University, and President of the
United States -- though a native Virginian with all the attitudes that
that implies. And has a highly respected School of Public and International
Affairs named for him.)

Steve Hayes

2015-12-03 05:34:51 UTC

On Wed, 2 Dec 2015 20:51:01 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"

Post by Steve Hayes

Post by Robert Bannister
I'd have thought the lesser used "cayf" was British too. I used all
three terms until I left England. Never used nor heard anything apart
from "caff-ay" since living here.

Stress on which syllable?

The first, in MyE.
"Caff" seems to be strictly BrE.
"Kaif" was (and may still be for all I know) the name given to the
student canteen at Rhodes University (which may now be called
somethimng else if the #rhodesmustfall movement has its way).

Rhodes was a bit like George Bush II or Saddam Hussein.

While Prime Minister of the Cape Colony he sent his private armies to
invade several other countries, A bit like Saddam Hussein invading
Kuwait and George Bush invading Iraq, ind in the case of the lattter
there were various buddy firms that benefited, Black something or
other?

But Rhodes went one better -- he didn't use the Cape Colony's troops,
he armed members of his own firm as filibusters.

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

Peter Moylan

2015-12-03 05:43:39 UTC

Post by Steve Hayes
"Kaif" was (and may still be for all I know) the name given to the
student canteen at Rhodes University (which may now be called
somethimng else if the #rhodesmustfall movement has its way).

Because of his invasions of Latin America? You've had other presidents
who did a lot worse than that.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

Jerry Friedman

2015-12-03 06:25:14 UTC

Post by Steve Hayes
"Kaif" was (and may still be for all I know) the name given to the
student canteen at Rhodes University

Compare the Harvard Coop (a co-op).

Post by Steve Hayes
(which may now be called
somethimng else if the #rhodesmustfall movement has its way).

Because of his invasions of Latin America? You've had other presidents
who did a lot worse than that.

The part I've heard about is his blatant prejudice against black people.

https://charlesohalloranboyd.wordpress.com/2013/09/30/woodrow-wilson-most-anti-black-president-of-the-20th-century/

Though this page tells a somewhat different story about the
effectiveness of protests against his segregation of the Federal workforce:

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/jimcrow/stories_events_segregation.html

In addition to the Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International
Affairs (known at Princeton as the Woody Woo), Princeton University has
a Wilson College (a group of dorms and a dining hall, mostly for
freshman and sophomores) and a Woodrow Wilson Cafe (Kaff-FAY, /k&'feI/).

--
Jerry Friedman

Garrett Wollman

2015-12-03 16:42:46 UTC

Post by Jerry Friedman
In addition to the Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International
Affairs (known at Princeton as the Woody Woo), Princeton University has
a Wilson College (a group of dorms and a dining hall, mostly for
freshman and sophomores) and a Woodrow Wilson Cafe (Kaff-FAY, /k&'feI/).

At least when I was there, one of the Alumni Memorial Residences at
Johns Hopkins was "Wilson" as well. He did his Ph.D. at Hopkins.

-GAWollman

Jerry Friedman

2015-12-05 05:07:18 UTC

At least when I was there, one of the Alumni Memorial Residences at
Johns Hopkins was "Wilson" as well. He did his Ph.D. at Hopkins.

Has there been a sit-in in the president's office?

--
Jerry Friedman

Peter T. Daniels

2015-12-05 05:26:55 UTC

Post by Jerry Friedman

At least when I was there, one of the Alumni Memorial Residences at
Johns Hopkins was "Wilson" as well. He did his Ph.D. at Hopkins.

Has there been a sit-in in the president's office?

Does anyone do sit-ins any more?

Peter T. Daniels

2015-12-03 12:36:25 UTC

Because of his invasions of Latin America? You've had other presidents
who did a lot worse than that.

Because he expressed and implemented racist attitudes.

The Spanish-American War was McKinley, not Wilson.

The hated Karl Rove, who engineered the 2000 Bush coup, just this moment,
plugging his book on McKinley, said that he was the first presidential
candidate ever to address a black audience. He also tried to appeal to
the women voters in a few of the Mountain states (it was 1896).

Janet

2015-12-01 15:41:23 UTC

In article <***@4ax.com>, tonycooper214
@gmail.com says...

British characters portrayed in UK films represent (to UK audiences)
the umpteen gradations of UK society that Brits find minutely
interesting, informative and/or entertaining. Accent vocabulary and
pronunciation are all part of it.

Cafe (like countless other words) is pronounced different ways by
different regions, dialects and social classes or by people being rude,
funny, self deprecating or streetwise about class and accent.

Janet

Whiskers

2015-12-01 17:43:30 UTC

Post by Janet
@gmail.com says...

British characters portrayed in UK films represent (to UK audiences)
the umpteen gradations of UK society that Brits find minutely
interesting, informative and/or entertaining. Accent vocabulary and
pronunciation are all part of it.
Cafe (like countless other words) is pronounced different ways by
different regions, dialects and social classes or by people being rude,
funny, self deprecating or streetwise about class and accent.
Janet

Henry's place is a rest-your-aunt. I think he'd be happy in a really
good caff but his missus wouldn't, although she might learn to love a
café.

--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~

s***@gmail.com

2015-12-01 19:25:44 UTC

Post by Janet
@gmail.com says...

British characters portrayed in UK films represent (to UK audiences)
the umpteen gradations of UK society that Brits find minutely
interesting, informative and/or entertaining. Accent vocabulary and
pronunciation are all part of it.
Cafe (like countless other words) is pronounced different ways by
different regions, dialects and social classes or by people being rude,
funny, self deprecating or streetwise about class and accent.

Henry's place is a rest-your-aunt. I think he'd be happy in a really
good caff but his missus wouldn't, although she might learn to love a
café.

"Rest-your-aunt" isn't a familiar phrase in my neck of the beach.
Means it a rest home or just a small shop with hot beverages and maybe sticky buns?

/dps

Whiskers

2015-12-01 20:40:22 UTC

Post by Janet

Post by Tony Cooper
I pronounce the word "cafe" as "caff-fay". I've heard the word
shorted to "caff" in UK films. But, tonight, in an episode of
"Pie in the Sky", Henry pronounced it "kayff" when speak of a
particular type of meal one would get in a cafe.
Odd, that.

British characters portrayed in UK films represent (to UK
audiences) the umpteen gradations of UK society that Brits find
minutely interesting, informative and/or entertaining. Accent
vocabulary and pronunciation are all part of it.
Cafe (like countless other words) is pronounced different ways
by different regions, dialects and social classes or by people
being rude, funny, self deprecating or streetwise about class
and accent.

Henry's place is a rest-your-aunt. I think he'd be happy in a really
good caff but his missus wouldn't, although she might learn to love a
café.

"Rest-your-aunt" isn't a familiar phrase in my neck of the beach.
Means it a rest home or just a small shop with hot beverages and maybe sticky buns?
/dps

Ever since a certain purveyor of minced meat patties and overheated
coffee took to calling their customer interface premises 'restaurants'
I've been searching for a new name for places that sell food on good
porcelain with real table-cloths and don't encourage the customers to
depart before digesting.

--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~

Peter T. Daniels

2015-12-01 21:20:14 UTC

Post by Janet
@gmail.com says...

British characters portrayed in UK films represent (to UK audiences)
the umpteen gradations of UK society that Brits find minutely
interesting, informative and/or entertaining. Accent vocabulary and
pronunciation are all part of it.
Cafe (like countless other words) is pronounced different ways by
different regions, dialects and social classes or by people being rude,
funny, self deprecating or streetwise about class and accent.

Henry's place is a rest-your-aunt. I think he'd be happy in a really
good caff but his missus wouldn't, although she might learn to love a
café.

"Rest-your-aunt" isn't a familiar phrase in my neck of the beach.
Means it a rest home or just a small shop with hot beverages and maybe sticky buns?

Whoosh?

s***@gmail.com

2015-12-01 23:14:47 UTC

Post by Janet
@gmail.com says...

British characters portrayed in UK films represent (to UK audiences)
the umpteen gradations of UK society that Brits find minutely
interesting, informative and/or entertaining. Accent vocabulary and
pronunciation are all part of it.
Cafe (like countless other words) is pronounced different ways by
different regions, dialects and social classes or by people being rude,
funny, self deprecating or streetwise about class and accent.

Henry's place is a rest-your-aunt. I think he'd be happy in a really
good caff but his missus wouldn't, although she might learn to love a
café.

"Rest-your-aunt" isn't a familiar phrase in my neck of the beach.
Means it a rest home or just a small shop with hot beverages and maybe sticky buns?

Whoosh?

Perhaps, but it may also be a semi-technical term fluttering off those wings.

/dps

Peter T. Daniels

2015-12-02 04:22:21 UTC

Post by Janet
@gmail.com says...

British characters portrayed in UK films represent (to UK audiences)
the umpteen gradations of UK society that Brits find minutely
interesting, informative and/or entertaining. Accent vocabulary and
pronunciation are all part of it.
Cafe (like countless other words) is pronounced different ways by
different regions, dialects and social classes or by people being rude,
funny, self deprecating or streetwise about class and accent.

Henry's place is a rest-your-aunt. I think he'd be happy in a really
good caff but his missus wouldn't, although she might learn to love a
café.

"Rest-your-aunt" isn't a familiar phrase in my neck of the beach.
Means it a rest home or just a small shop with hot beverages and maybe sticky buns?

Whoosh?

Perhaps, but it may also be a semi-technical term fluttering off those wings.

I suspect Whiskers was making fun of those who insert [j] willy-nilly before
[u], by inserting it before a non-[u] vowel to make a syllable resembling a
word that does normally have [ju] (or [jO]).

Robert Bannister

2015-12-03 02:41:05 UTC

Post by Janet
@gmail.com says...

British characters portrayed in UK films represent (to UK audiences)
the umpteen gradations of UK society that Brits find minutely
interesting, informative and/or entertaining. Accent vocabulary and
pronunciation are all part of it.
Cafe (like countless other words) is pronounced different ways by
different regions, dialects and social classes or by people being rude,
funny, self deprecating or streetwise about class and accent.

Henry's place is a rest-your-aunt. I think he'd be happy in a really
good caff but his missus wouldn't, although she might learn to love a
café.

"Rest-your-aunt" isn't a familiar phrase in my neck of the beach.
Means it a rest home or just a small shop with hot beverages and maybe sticky buns?

Whoosh?

Perhaps, but it may also be a semi-technical term fluttering off those wings.

I suspect Whiskers was making fun of those who insert [j] willy-nilly before
[u], by inserting it before a non-[u] vowel to make a syllable resembling a
word that does normally have [ju] (or [jO]).

I put a [ju] in "ampule" but not in the foreign word "ampoule".

--
Robert Bannister
Perth, Western Australia

Peter T. Daniels

2015-12-03 04:47:39 UTC

Post by Janet
@gmail.com says...

British characters portrayed in UK films represent (to UK audiences)
the umpteen gradations of UK society that Brits find minutely
interesting, informative and/or entertaining. Accent vocabulary and
pronunciation are all part of it.
Cafe (like countless other words) is pronounced different ways by
different regions, dialects and social classes or by people being rude,
funny, self deprecating or streetwise about class and accent.

Henry's place is a rest-your-aunt. I think he'd be happy in a really
good caff but his missus wouldn't, although she might learn to love a
café.

"Rest-your-aunt" isn't a familiar phrase in my neck of the beach.
Means it a rest home or just a small shop with hot beverages and maybe sticky buns?

Whoosh?

Perhaps, but it may also be a semi-technical term fluttering off those wings.

I suspect Whiskers was making fun of those who insert [j] willy-nilly before
[u], by inserting it before a non-[u] vowel to make a syllable resembling a
word that does normally have [ju] (or [jO]).

I put a [ju] in "ampule" but not in the foreign word "ampoule".

You are correct, sir. (That's an allusion that will probably escape our
younger and Otherpondian readers.)

Wayne Brown

2015-12-04 14:50:22 UTC

Post by Janet
@gmail.com says...

British characters portrayed in UK films represent (to UK audiences)
the umpteen gradations of UK society that Brits find minutely
interesting, informative and/or entertaining. Accent vocabulary and
pronunciation are all part of it.
Cafe (like countless other words) is pronounced different ways by
different regions, dialects and social classes or by people being rude,
funny, self deprecating or streetwise about class and accent.

Henry's place is a rest-your-aunt. I think he'd be happy in a really
good caff but his missus wouldn't, although she might learn to love a
café.

"Rest-your-aunt" isn't a familiar phrase in my neck of the beach.
Means it a rest home or just a small shop with hot beverages and maybe sticky buns?

Whoosh?

Perhaps, but it may also be a semi-technical term fluttering off those wings.

I suspect Whiskers was making fun of those who insert [j] willy-nilly before
[u], by inserting it before a non-[u] vowel to make a syllable resembling a
word that does normally have [ju] (or [jO]).

I put a [ju] in "ampule" but not in the foreign word "ampoule".

You are correct, sir. (That's an allusion that will probably escape our
younger and Otherpondian readers.)

HIGH-yo!

--
F. Wayne Brown <***@bellsouth.net>

ur sag9-ga ur-tur-še3 ba-an-kur9
"A dog that is played with turns into a puppy." (Sumerian proverb)

Peter T. Daniels

2015-12-04 17:00:26 UTC

Post by Janet
@gmail.com says...

British characters portrayed in UK films represent (to UK audiences)
the umpteen gradations of UK society that Brits find minutely
interesting, informative and/or entertaining. Accent vocabulary and
pronunciation are all part of it.
Cafe (like countless other words) is pronounced different ways by
different regions, dialects and social classes or by people being rude,
funny, self deprecating or streetwise about class and accent.

Henry's place is a rest-your-aunt. I think he'd be happy in a really
good caff but his missus wouldn't, although she might learn to love a
café.

"Rest-your-aunt" isn't a familiar phrase in my neck of the beach.
Means it a rest home or just a small shop with hot beverages and maybe sticky buns?

Whoosh?

Perhaps, but it may also be a semi-technical term fluttering off those wings.

I suspect Whiskers was making fun of those who insert [j] willy-nilly before
[u], by inserting it before a non-[u] vowel to make a syllable resembling a
word that does normally have [ju] (or [jO]).

I put a [ju] in "ampule" but not in the foreign word "ampoule".

You are correct, sir. (That's an allusion that will probably escape our
younger and Otherpondian readers.)

HIGH-yo!

Good. You got it. (That's an allusion originally going back to the same era but
that should be familiar to Otherpondians, even younger ones.)

Oliver Cromm

2015-12-04 17:51:13 UTC

Post by Janet
@gmail.com says...

British characters portrayed in UK films represent (to UK audiences)
the umpteen gradations of UK society that Brits find minutely
interesting, informative and/or entertaining. Accent vocabulary and
pronunciation are all part of it.
Cafe (like countless other words) is pronounced different ways by
different regions, dialects and social classes or by people being rude,
funny, self deprecating or streetwise about class and accent.

Henry's place is a rest-your-aunt. I think he'd be happy in a really
good caff but his missus wouldn't, although she might learn to love a
café.

"Rest-your-aunt" isn't a familiar phrase in my neck of the beach.
Means it a rest home or just a small shop with hot beverages and maybe sticky buns?

Whoosh?

Perhaps, but it may also be a semi-technical term fluttering off those wings.

I suspect Whiskers was making fun of those who insert [j] willy-nilly before
[u], by inserting it before a non-[u] vowel to make a syllable resembling a
word that does normally have [ju] (or [jO]).

I put a [ju] in "ampule" but not in the foreign word "ampoule".

You are correct, sir. (That's an allusion that will probably escape our
younger and Otherpondian readers.)

HIGH-yo!

Good. You got it. (That's an allusion originally going back to the same era but
that should be familiar to Otherpondians, even younger ones.)

YACS reminds me of RF, HIGH-yo of nothing.

What can you do, I am still a neither-here-nor-there-pondian.

--
ASCII to ASCII, DOS to DOS

Peter T. Daniels

2015-12-04 21:17:05 UTC

Post by Janet
@gmail.com says...

British characters portrayed in UK films represent (to UK audiences)
the umpteen gradations of UK society that Brits find minutely
interesting, informative and/or entertaining. Accent vocabulary and
pronunciation are all part of it.
Cafe (like countless other words) is pronounced different ways by
different regions, dialects and social classes or by people being rude,
funny, self deprecating or streetwise about class and accent.

Henry's place is a rest-your-aunt. I think he'd be happy in a really
good caff but his missus wouldn't, although she might learn to love a
café.

"Rest-your-aunt" isn't a familiar phrase in my neck of the beach.
Means it a rest home or just a small shop with hot beverages and maybe sticky buns?

Whoosh?

Perhaps, but it may also be a semi-technical term fluttering off those wings.

I suspect Whiskers was making fun of those who insert [j] willy-nilly before
[u], by inserting it before a non-[u] vowel to make a syllable resembling a
word that does normally have [ju] (or [jO]).

I put a [ju] in "ampule" but not in the foreign word "ampoule".

You are correct, sir. (That's an allusion that will probably escape our
younger and Otherpondian readers.)

HIGH-yo!

Good. You got it. (That's an allusion originally going back to the same era but
that should be familiar to Otherpondians, even younger ones.)

YACS reminds me of RF, HIGH-yo of nothing.

I don't know what RF is, but both of those expressions were regularly uttered
by the same person, probably nightly.

Post by Oliver Cromm
What can you do, I am still a neither-here-nor-there-pondian.

Tony Cooper

2015-12-04 21:43:42 UTC

On Fri, 4 Dec 2015 13:17:05 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"

Post by Janet
@gmail.com says...

British characters portrayed in UK films represent (to UK audiences)
the umpteen gradations of UK society that Brits find minutely
interesting, informative and/or entertaining. Accent vocabulary and
pronunciation are all part of it.
Cafe (like countless other words) is pronounced different ways by
different regions, dialects and social classes or by people being rude,
funny, self deprecating or streetwise about class and accent.

Henry's place is a rest-your-aunt. I think he'd be happy in a really
good caff but his missus wouldn't, although she might learn to love a
café.

"Rest-your-aunt" isn't a familiar phrase in my neck of the beach.
Means it a rest home or just a small shop with hot beverages and maybe sticky buns?

Whoosh?

Perhaps, but it may also be a semi-technical term fluttering off those wings.

I suspect Whiskers was making fun of those who insert [j] willy-nilly before
[u], by inserting it before a non-[u] vowel to make a syllable resembling a
word that does normally have [ju] (or [jO]).

I put a [ju] in "ampule" but not in the foreign word "ampoule".

You are correct, sir. (That's an allusion that will probably escape our
younger and Otherpondian readers.)

HIGH-yo!

Good. You got it. (That's an allusion originally going back to the same era but
that should be familiar to Otherpondians, even younger ones.)

YACS reminds me of RF, HIGH-yo of nothing.

I don't know what RF is, but both of those expressions were regularly uttered
by the same person, probably nightly.

"RF" is Richard Fontana, or "Areff", a former - and much appreciated -
poster in this group.

While I know quite well who Areff is, I have no idea of what "HIGH-yo"
means. I don't remember him saying "You are correct, Sir", but I do
remember him saying I wasn't correct when I jokingly referred to
Brooklyn as a suburb of NYC.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

Garrett Wollman

2015-12-04 21:53:14 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
On Fri, 4 Dec 2015 13:17:05 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"

Post by Peter T. Daniels
I don't know what RF is, but both of those expressions were regularly uttered
by the same person, probably nightly.

The person who said both of those things was Ed McMahon. Most people
in this group are old enough to have seen him on The Tonight Show,
although not necessarily on the right continent.

-GAWollman

Peter T. Daniels

2015-12-04 22:42:47 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
On Fri, 4 Dec 2015 13:17:05 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"

Post by Peter T. Daniels
I don't know what RF is, but both of those expressions were regularly uttered
by the same person, probably nightly.

The person who said both of those things was Ed McMahon. Most people
in this group are old enough to have seen him on The Tonight Show,
although not necessarily on the right continent.

And what's the Areff connection, though you conveniently deleted the context
from which to determine it?

Oliver Cromm

2015-12-04 22:48:06 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
On Fri, 4 Dec 2015 13:17:05 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"

Post by Oliver Cromm
YACS reminds me of RF, HIGH-yo of nothing.

I don't know what RF is, but both of those expressions were regularly uttered
by the same person, probably nightly.

"RF" is Richard Fontana, or "Areff", a former - and much appreciated -
poster in this group.
While I know quite well who Areff is, I have no idea of what "HIGH-yo"
means. I don't remember him saying "You are correct, Sir", but I do
remember him saying I wasn't correct when I jokingly referred to
Brooklyn as a suburb of NYC.

IIRC, for him Brooklyn was the fourth biggest city in the US.

--
Democracy means government by the uneducated,
while aristocracy means government by the badly educated.
-- G. K. Chesterton

Katy Jennison

2015-12-04 22:00:20 UTC

Post by Peter T. Daniels
You are correct, sir. (That's an allusion that will probably escape our
younger and Otherpondian readers.)

HIGH-yo!

Good. You got it. (That's an allusion originally going back to the same era but
that should be familiar to Otherpondians, even younger ones.)

YACS reminds me of RF, HIGH-yo of nothing.

I don't know what RF is, but both of those expressions were regularly uttered
by the same person, probably nightly.

In this context (I mean in aue), RF is probably Richard Fontana. I'd
have said the same. I'd never heard of Ed McMahon until I looked it up
just now. We live sheltered lives over here.

--
Katy Jennison

Peter T. Daniels

2015-12-04 22:44:08 UTC

Post by Peter T. Daniels
You are correct, sir. (That's an allusion that will probably escape our
younger and Otherpondian readers.)

HIGH-yo!

Good. You got it. (That's an allusion originally going back to the same era but
that should be familiar to Otherpondians, even younger ones.)

YACS reminds me of RF, HIGH-yo of nothing.

I don't know what RF is, but both of those expressions were regularly uttered
by the same person, probably nightly.

In this context (I mean in aue), RF is probably Richard Fontana. I'd
have said the same. I'd never heard of Ed McMahon until I looked it up
just now. We live sheltered lives over here.

So Areff was the sort of person who'd repeat catchphrases of popular TV personalities?

Tony Cooper

2015-12-04 23:09:14 UTC

On Fri, 4 Dec 2015 14:44:08 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"

Post by Peter T. Daniels
You are correct, sir. (That's an allusion that will probably escape our
younger and Otherpondian readers.)

HIGH-yo!

Good. You got it. (That's an allusion originally going back to the same era but
that should be familiar to Otherpondians, even younger ones.)

YACS reminds me of RF, HIGH-yo of nothing.

I don't know what RF is, but both of those expressions were regularly uttered
by the same person, probably nightly.

In this context (I mean in aue), RF is probably Richard Fontana. I'd
have said the same. I'd never heard of Ed McMahon until I looked it up
just now. We live sheltered lives over here.

So Areff was the sort of person who'd repeat catchphrases of popular TV personalities?

I don't remember him doing that, but he was knowledgeable about
television trivia and an expert witness when it came to "Happy Days".

Read what is written in this post. "YACS reminds me of RF" is the
only reference to Areff. It doesn't mean he repeated catchphrases
plural.

He didn't like Brooklyn being called a suburb, Sixth Avenue being
called "Avenue of the Americas, and did like Steny Hoyer. He was that
sort.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

Steve Hayes

2015-12-05 02:39:14 UTC

On Fri, 04 Dec 2015 18:09:14 -0500, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
On Fri, 4 Dec 2015 14:44:08 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"

Post by Peter T. Daniels
You are correct, sir. (That's an allusion that will probably escape our
younger and Otherpondian readers.)

HIGH-yo!

Good. You got it. (That's an allusion originally going back to the same era but
that should be familiar to Otherpondians, even younger ones.)

YACS reminds me of RF, HIGH-yo of nothing.

I don't know what RF is, but both of those expressions were regularly uttered
by the same person, probably nightly.

In this context (I mean in aue), RF is probably Richard Fontana. I'd
have said the same. I'd never heard of Ed McMahon until I looked it up
just now. We live sheltered lives over here.

So Areff was the sort of person who'd repeat catchphrases of popular TV personalities?

I don't remember him doing that, but he was knowledgeable about
television trivia and an expert witness when it came to "Happy Days".
Read what is written in this post. "YACS reminds me of RF" is the
only reference to Areff. It doesn't mean he repeated catchphrases
plural.
He didn't like Brooklyn being called a suburb, Sixth Avenue being
called "Avenue of the Americas, and did like Steny Hoyer. He was that
sort.

In SAfE there would be nothing wrong with calling Brooklyn a suburb of
New York, but I believe "suburb" has different connotations in AmE and
BrE. The official term is "Borough", or so I've heard.

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

Tony Cooper

2015-12-05 03:57:37 UTC

On Sat, 05 Dec 2015 04:39:14 +0200, Steve Hayes

Post by Steve Hayes
On Fri, 04 Dec 2015 18:09:14 -0500, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
On Fri, 4 Dec 2015 14:44:08 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"

Post by Peter T. Daniels
You are correct, sir. (That's an allusion that will probably escape our
younger and Otherpondian readers.)

HIGH-yo!

Good. You got it. (That's an allusion originally going back to the same era but
that should be familiar to Otherpondians, even younger ones.)

YACS reminds me of RF, HIGH-yo of nothing.

I don't know what RF is, but both of those expressions were regularly uttered
by the same person, probably nightly.

In this context (I mean in aue), RF is probably Richard Fontana. I'd
have said the same. I'd never heard of Ed McMahon until I looked it up
just now. We live sheltered lives over here.

So Areff was the sort of person who'd repeat catchphrases of popular TV personalities?

I don't remember him doing that, but he was knowledgeable about
television trivia and an expert witness when it came to "Happy Days".
Read what is written in this post. "YACS reminds me of RF" is the
only reference to Areff. It doesn't mean he repeated catchphrases
plural.
He didn't like Brooklyn being called a suburb, Sixth Avenue being
called "Avenue of the Americas, and did like Steny Hoyer. He was that
sort.

In SAfE there would be nothing wrong with calling Brooklyn a suburb of
New York, but I believe "suburb" has different connotations in AmE and
BrE. The official term is "Borough", or so I've heard.

There is nothing suburb-like about Brooklyn, but calling Brooklyn a
suburb of NYC became a running joke.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

Steve Hayes

2015-12-05 05:15:10 UTC

On Fri, 04 Dec 2015 22:57:37 -0500, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 05 Dec 2015 04:39:14 +0200, Steve Hayes

Post by Steve Hayes
On Fri, 04 Dec 2015 18:09:14 -0500, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
On Fri, 4 Dec 2015 14:44:08 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"

Post by Peter T. Daniels
You are correct, sir. (That's an allusion that will probably escape our
younger and Otherpondian readers.)

HIGH-yo!

Good. You got it. (That's an allusion originally going back to the same era but
that should be familiar to Otherpondians, even younger ones.)

YACS reminds me of RF, HIGH-yo of nothing.

I don't know what RF is, but both of those expressions were regularly uttered
by the same person, probably nightly.

In this context (I mean in aue), RF is probably Richard Fontana. I'd
have said the same. I'd never heard of Ed McMahon until I looked it up
just now. We live sheltered lives over here.

So Areff was the sort of person who'd repeat catchphrases of popular TV personalities?

I don't remember him doing that, but he was knowledgeable about
television trivia and an expert witness when it came to "Happy Days".
Read what is written in this post. "YACS reminds me of RF" is the
only reference to Areff. It doesn't mean he repeated catchphrases
plural.
He didn't like Brooklyn being called a suburb, Sixth Avenue being
called "Avenue of the Americas, and did like Steny Hoyer. He was that
sort.

In SAfE there would be nothing wrong with calling Brooklyn a suburb of
New York, but I believe "suburb" has different connotations in AmE and
BrE. The official term is "Borough", or so I've heard.

There is nothing suburb-like about Brooklyn, but calling Brooklyn a
suburb of NYC became a running joke.

Well it's suburb-like in the sense that it is a separately-named part
of a city.

Actually here we've gone to three levels. I live in Kilner Park, which
used to be a suburb of Pretoria. But now Pretoria itself is part of
the megacity of Tshwane.

I suppose you could say that Pretoria is to Tshwane what Manhattan is
to New York City.

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

Peter T. Daniels

2015-12-05 05:25:55 UTC

Post by Steve Hayes
On Fri, 04 Dec 2015 22:57:37 -0500, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 05 Dec 2015 04:39:14 +0200, Steve Hayes

Post by Steve Hayes
In SAfE there would be nothing wrong with calling Brooklyn a suburb of
New York, but I believe "suburb" has different connotations in AmE and
BrE. The official term is "Borough", or so I've heard.

There is nothing suburb-like about Brooklyn, but calling Brooklyn a
suburb of NYC became a running joke.

Well it's suburb-like in the sense that it is a separately-named part
of a city.

That specifically makes it _not_ a suburb. A suburb is _not_ part of a city.

Post by Steve Hayes
Actually here we've gone to three levels. I live in Kilner Park, which
used to be a suburb of Pretoria. But now Pretoria itself is part of
the megacity of Tshwane.
I suppose you could say that Pretoria is to Tshwane what Manhattan is
to New York City.

How many "parts" does Tshwane have? Did you vote for (or against) Tshwane's mayor?

Peter Moylan

2015-12-05 05:47:15 UTC

Post by Steve Hayes
On Fri, 04 Dec 2015 22:57:37 -0500, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 05 Dec 2015 04:39:14 +0200, Steve Hayes

There is nothing suburb-like about Brooklyn, but calling Brooklyn a
suburb of NYC became a running joke.

Well it's suburb-like in the sense that it is a separately-named part
of a city.

That specifically makes it _not_ a suburb. A suburb is _not_ part of a city.

That depends on where you are. In Australia, for example, if it's not
part of a city then it can't be a suburb. Even a bit of separating green
space makes it a separate town.

I agree, though, that that's not how it works in AmE.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

Peter Duncanson [BrE]

2015-12-05 13:35:46 UTC

On Sat, 05 Dec 2015 16:47:15 +1100, Peter Moylan

Post by Steve Hayes
On Fri, 04 Dec 2015 22:57:37 -0500, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 05 Dec 2015 04:39:14 +0200, Steve Hayes

There is nothing suburb-like about Brooklyn, but calling Brooklyn a
suburb of NYC became a running joke.

Well it's suburb-like in the sense that it is a separately-named part
of a city.

That specifically makes it _not_ a suburb. A suburb is _not_ part of a city.

That depends on where you are. In Australia, for example, if it's not
part of a city then it can't be a suburb. Even a bit of separating green
space makes it a separate town.

Similar in the UK.
A suburb is part of a conurbation and is in the outer area of it.

This is a geographical description. It has nothing to to with local
government boundaries.

Post by Peter Moylan
I agree, though, that that's not how it works in AmE.

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

Peter T. Daniels

2015-12-05 14:21:41 UTC

Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Sat, 05 Dec 2015 16:47:15 +1100, Peter Moylan

Post by Steve Hayes
On Fri, 04 Dec 2015 22:57:37 -0500, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 05 Dec 2015 04:39:14 +0200, Steve Hayes

There is nothing suburb-like about Brooklyn, but calling Brooklyn a
suburb of NYC became a running joke.

Well it's suburb-like in the sense that it is a separately-named part
of a city.

That specifically makes it _not_ a suburb. A suburb is _not_ part of a city.

That depends on where you are. In Australia, for example, if it's not
part of a city then it can't be a suburb. Even a bit of separating green
space makes it a separate town.

Similar in the UK.
A suburb is part of a conurbation and is in the outer area of it.
This is a geographical description. It has nothing to to with local
government boundaries.

Post by Peter Moylan
I agree, though, that that's not how it works in AmE.

The AmE sense is the one appropriate for considering the status of Brooklyn, NY.

Tony Cooper

2015-12-05 18:38:39 UTC