Discussion:
BrE "It's dead pretty"
(too old to reply)
occam
2017-03-26 14:02:59 UTC
Permalink
I heard the expression "It's dead pretty" on a radio program (BrE). Odd
expression, bordering on the macabre? I cannot even imaging how it came
into use. "Dead boring" makes sense. Ditto "Dead silent". But pretty?
Peter T. Daniels
2017-03-26 14:18:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by occam
I heard the expression "It's dead pretty" on a radio program (BrE). Odd
expression, bordering on the macabre? I cannot even imaging how it came
into use. "Dead boring" makes sense. Ditto "Dead silent". But pretty?
It's a bit surprising in BrE, but in AmE it's an intensifier, associated with rural speech.
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2017-03-26 14:41:15 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 26 Mar 2017 07:18:56 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
I heard the expression "It's dead pretty" on a radio program (BrE). Odd
expression, bordering on the macabre? I cannot even imaging how it came
into use. "Dead boring" makes sense. Ditto "Dead silent". But pretty?
It's a bit surprising in BrE, but in AmE it's an intensifier, associated with rural speech.
"dead" meaning "complete(ly); absolute(ly)" is common in colloquial BrE
as an adjective or adverb.

I haven't met "dead pretty" before, but it isn't a surprise to me.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/dead

<snip>

adverb

1 often as submodifier Absolutely; completely.
‘you're dead right’
‘he was dead against the idea’

1.1 Exactly.
‘they arrived dead on time’

1.2 Straight; directly.
‘red flares were seen dead ahead’

1.3British informal Very.
‘omelettes are dead easy to prepare’

There is a company in Edinburgh, UK, with the mildly punning name "Dead
Pretty Taxidermy":
http://deadprettytaxidermy.bigcartel.com/t-c-s

Welcome to Dead Pretty Taxidermy! The home of every thing curious,
weird and beautiful!

My animal products are all ethically sourced, roadkill, natural
death, biproduct of food industry, killed as pests, etc!

I offer a wide range of jewellery, gifts, curios, oddities and
taxidermy, but I'm always happy to take on custom orders, just get
in touch with what you have in mind!
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Tony Cooper
2017-03-26 14:47:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by occam
I heard the expression "It's dead pretty" on a radio program (BrE). Odd
expression, bordering on the macabre? I cannot even imaging how it came
into use. "Dead boring" makes sense. Ditto "Dead silent". But pretty?
That "dead" is the "dead on" dead meaning "very accurate" or "on
target". It is not the "dead" as in no longer alive.

We also use "dead reckoning" to mean determining one's position by
extrapolating from another position. No one dies in the process if
the calculation is done correctly.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
occam
2017-03-26 16:11:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by occam
I heard the expression "It's dead pretty" on a radio program (BrE). Odd
expression, bordering on the macabre? I cannot even imaging how it came
into use. "Dead boring" makes sense. Ditto "Dead silent". But pretty?
That "dead" is the "dead on" dead meaning "very accurate" or "on
target". It is not the "dead" as in no longer alive.
Hmm. I've been looking at other similar expressions and I concluded it
came from 'drop dead' rather than 'dead on'. In the expression "she's
drop dead gorgeous" 'dead' refers to the observer's tendency to
faint/die at the sight of some breathtaking beauty, scenery and so on. I
may be wrong.
Tony Cooper
2017-03-26 16:32:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by occam
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by occam
I heard the expression "It's dead pretty" on a radio program (BrE). Odd
expression, bordering on the macabre? I cannot even imaging how it came
into use. "Dead boring" makes sense. Ditto "Dead silent". But pretty?
That "dead" is the "dead on" dead meaning "very accurate" or "on
target". It is not the "dead" as in no longer alive.
Hmm. I've been looking at other similar expressions and I concluded it
came from 'drop dead' rather than 'dead on'. In the expression "she's
drop dead gorgeous" 'dead' refers to the observer's tendency to
faint/die at the sight of some breathtaking beauty, scenery and so on. I
may be wrong.
You can conjecture about the origin, but the point is that it is not
the "dead" that means "no longer living". Nothing macabre about it.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
grabber
2017-03-26 16:36:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by occam
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by occam
I heard the expression "It's dead pretty" on a radio program (BrE). Odd
expression, bordering on the macabre? I cannot even imaging how it came
into use. "Dead boring" makes sense. Ditto "Dead silent". But pretty?
That "dead" is the "dead on" dead meaning "very accurate" or "on
target". It is not the "dead" as in no longer alive.
Hmm. I've been looking at other similar expressions and I concluded it
came from 'drop dead'
I think not. "Dead" as an intensifier far predates adjectival and
adverbial senses of "drop dead".

<oed>
Dead (adv)
[...]
2.
a. Hence more generally: Utterly, entirely, absolutely, quite. (Cf. A.
31a) Esp. dead broke (see broke adj. 3a), dead certain, dead easy, dead
frozen sure, dead level, dead right, dead sure. Now colloq.

?1589 T. Nashe Almond for Parrat sig. 5v, Oh he is olde dogge at
expounding, and deade sure at a Catechisme.
1740 S. Richardson Pamela I. xxxi. 146 A dead, spiteful, grey,
goggling Eye.
1826 B. Disraeli Vivian Grey I. i. v. 34 He cut the Doctor quite
dead at Greek to-day.
1845 Cultivator 2 92 As I..come out upon the high prairie with the
wind ‘dead ahead’.
1849 G. C. Greenwell Gloss. Terms Coal Trade Northumberland & Durham
3, The small coals..are..passed over a second skreen, [to separate]
the nuts..and the dead small, or duff, which falls through the skreen.
1857 R. Tomes Americans in Japan ix. 196 Before the rice is ‘dead ripe’.
1860 W. F. Hook Lives Archbps. (1862) II. ii. 93 Only one
horse..which soon became dead lame.
a1861 T. Winthrop Canoe & Saddle (1883) 280 Prairieland lies dead
level for leagues.
1871 J. Hay Pike County Ballads 10 He'd seen his duty a dead-sure thing.
1883 ‘M. Twain’ Life on Mississippi xxxix. 414 We'll cotton-seed his
salad for him..that's a dead-certain thing.
1885 ‘F. Anstey’ Tinted Venus 59, I saw directly that I'd mashed
her—she was gone, dead gone, sir.
1894 in E. R. Lamson Yale Wit & Humor 47 (caption) A Dead Easy
Queen Caught His Eye.
1895 J. L. Williams Princeton Stories 166 You're dead right in
saying he's too young.
1897 Scribner's Mag. Sept. 297/2, I was dead frozen sure that I had
a sure tip on a wheat deal.
1903 A. Bennett Let. 24 Aug. (1960) 96 She is dead right all through.
1904 W. H. Smith Promoters v. 92 For a dead easy mark in a business
way, commend me to a preacher.
1906 Springfield Weekly Republican 12 July 3 His scouts..report that
Moran [a candidate for governor] has a dead-sure thing.
1908 G. H. Lorimer Jack Spurlock i. 19 It was like having one of
those mushy girls dead gone on you.
1922 D. H. Lawrence Aaron's Rod vii. 71 She liked him because of his
dead-level indifference to his surroundings.
1923 ‘B. M. Bower’ Parowan Bonanza i. 15 ‘You're dead right, old
girl,’ Bill agreed.
1930 ‘J. J. Connington’ Two Tickets Puzzle xiv. 222 There's no great
trouble in guessing who's mixed up in the business—that's dead easy.
1930 W. Gibson Hazards 12 He could always plane the deal Dead-level;
ay, his work was always true.
1959 J. Braine Vodi i. 22 You're mardy. You're dead mardy.
1961 A. Simpson & R. Galton Four Hancock Scripts 43/2 Tony and Sid
are dead bored.
1963 D. Lessing Man & Two Women 140 ‘That's right,’ said Charlie,
‘you're dead right.’

</oed>
Post by occam
rather than 'dead on'. In the expression "she's
drop dead gorgeous" 'dead' refers to the observer's tendency to
faint/die at the sight of some breathtaking beauty, scenery and so on. I
may be wrong.
Jack Campin
2017-03-26 16:51:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by occam
I heard the expression "It's dead pretty" on a radio program (BrE). Odd
expression, bordering on the macabre? I cannot even imaging how it came
into use. "Dead boring" makes sense. Ditto "Dead silent". But pretty?
Pure dead brilliant.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
e m a i l : j a c k @ c a m p i n . m e . u k
Jack Campin, 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland
mobile 07895 860 060 <http://www.campin.me.uk> Twitter: JackCampin
Lewis
2017-03-26 17:53:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by occam
I heard the expression "It's dead pretty" on a radio program (BrE). Odd
expression, bordering on the macabre? I cannot even imaging how it came
into use. "Dead boring" makes sense. Ditto "Dead silent". But pretty?
Dead has many meaning.

See: dead shot, dead certain, dead reckoning, dead center, dead-eye,
dead heat, dead right, and many others having nothing to do with death.
--
Granny Weatherwax didn't hold with looking at the future, but now she
could feel the future looking at her. She didn't like its expression at
all.
i***@gmail.com
2017-03-26 19:25:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by occam
I heard the expression "It's dead pretty" on a radio program (BrE). Odd
expression, bordering on the macabre? I cannot even imaging how it came
into use. "Dead boring" makes sense. Ditto "Dead silent". But pretty?
The Online Etymology Dictionary said the following:

Meaning "insensible" is first attested early 13c. Of places, "inactive, dull," from 1580s. Used from 16c. in adjectival sense of "utter, absolute, quite" (as in dead drunk, first attested 1590s; dead heat, 1796). As an adverb, from late 14c. Dead on is 1889, from marksmanship. Dead duck is from 1844. Dead letter is from 1703, used of laws lacking force as well as uncollected mail. Phrase in the dead of the night first recorded 1540s. Dead soldier "emptied liquor bottle" is from 1913 in that form; the image is older.

I would say 'dead drunk', in the adjectival sense mentioned above, is the expression I am most familiar with, probably from fiction.

BowTie
b***@aol.com
2017-03-26 20:08:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by occam
I heard the expression "It's dead pretty" on a radio program (BrE). Odd
expression, bordering on the macabre? I cannot even imaging how it came
into use. "Dead boring" makes sense. Ditto "Dead silent". But pretty?
It seems "dead" was first attested as an adverb meaning "completely" in the phrase "dead drunk" (1590s). That was obviously a suitable metaphor, but, based on this particular usage, "dead" as an adverb seems to have then been applied to a wide array of adjectives. Incidentally, I wonder whether "dead alive" could mean "bursting with life".
HVS
2017-03-26 23:09:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@aol.com
It seems "dead" was first attested as an adverb meaning
"completely" in the=
Post by b***@aol.com
phrase "dead drunk" (1590s). That was obviously a suitable
metaphor, but, =
Post by b***@aol.com
based on this particular usage, "dead" as an adverb seems to have
then been=
Post by b***@aol.com
applied to a wide array of adjectives. Incidentally, I wonder
whether "dead alive" could mean "bursting with life".

In context - sure. Pleasingly clever.
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanE (30 years) & BrE (34 years),
indiscriminately mixed
b***@aol.com
2017-03-27 03:03:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVS
Post by b***@aol.com
It seems "dead" was first attested as an adverb meaning
"completely" in the=
Post by b***@aol.com
phrase "dead drunk" (1590s). That was obviously a suitable
metaphor, but, =
Post by b***@aol.com
based on this particular usage, "dead" as an adverb seems to have
then been=
Post by b***@aol.com
applied to a wide array of adjectives. Incidentally, I wonder
whether "dead alive" could mean "bursting with life".
In context - sure. Pleasingly clever.
And a dead metaphor, so to say.
Post by HVS
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanE (30 years) & BrE (34 years),
indiscriminately mixed
GordonD
2017-03-27 08:15:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by occam
I heard the expression "It's dead pretty" on a radio program (BrE). Odd
expression, bordering on the macabre? I cannot even imaging how it came
into use. "Dead boring" makes sense. Ditto "Dead silent". But pretty?
No more peculiar than "doing terribly well", IMO.
--
Gordon Davie
Edinburgh, Scotland
occam
2017-03-27 13:02:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by GordonD
Post by occam
I heard the expression "It's dead pretty" on a radio program (BrE). Odd
expression, bordering on the macabre? I cannot even imaging how it came
into use. "Dead boring" makes sense. Ditto "Dead silent". But pretty?
No more peculiar than "doing terribly well", IMO.
Or 'awfully good cake'. However that is no justification for their
continued use, is it? We just cling on these idioms for want of better
expressions.
RH Draney
2017-03-27 13:46:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by occam
Post by GordonD
Post by occam
I heard the expression "It's dead pretty" on a radio program (BrE). Odd
expression, bordering on the macabre? I cannot even imaging how it came
into use. "Dead boring" makes sense. Ditto "Dead silent". But pretty?
No more peculiar than "doing terribly well", IMO.
Or 'awfully good cake'. However that is no justification for their
continued use, is it? We just cling on these idioms for want of better
expressions.
"She's awful pretty, but her sister is pretty awful" (paraphrase of
Bianca's description in TOTS)....r
occam
2017-03-27 15:40:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by RH Draney
Post by occam
Post by GordonD
Post by occam
I heard the expression "It's dead pretty" on a radio program (BrE). Odd
expression, bordering on the macabre? I cannot even imaging how it came
into use. "Dead boring" makes sense. Ditto "Dead silent". But pretty?
No more peculiar than "doing terribly well", IMO.
Or 'awfully good cake'. However that is no justification for their
continued use, is it? We just cling on these idioms for want of better
expressions.
"She's awful pretty, but her sister is pretty awful" (paraphrase of
Bianca's description in TOTS)....r
That inversion also works for 'dead pretty' and ... 'pretty dead'.
Bill Day
2017-03-27 14:44:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by occam
I heard the expression "It's dead pretty" on a radio program (BrE). Odd
expression, bordering on the macabre? I cannot even imaging how it came
into use. "Dead boring" makes sense. Ditto "Dead silent". But pretty?
Just a colloquial use similar to 'plumb' used as an adverb, as in:
Squarely, directly; completely, totally

It hit him plumb in the middle of his face.
Years ago the well plumb dried out, not a drop of water in there
since.
He rode his bicycle plumb around the block.

I heard it used as a child, over 60 years ago (thought they were
saying 'plum') but not since.

I've heard 'dead' used occasionally as an intensifier.
--
remove nonsense for reply
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2017-03-27 16:20:02 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 10:44:14 -0400, Bill Day
Post by Bill Day
Post by occam
I heard the expression "It's dead pretty" on a radio program (BrE). Odd
expression, bordering on the macabre? I cannot even imaging how it came
into use. "Dead boring" makes sense. Ditto "Dead silent". But pretty?
Squarely, directly; completely, totally
It hit him plumb in the middle of his face.
Years ago the well plumb dried out, not a drop of water in there
since.
He rode his bicycle plumb around the block.
I heard it used as a child, over 60 years ago (thought they were
saying 'plum') but not since.
I've heard 'dead' used occasionally as an intensifier.
Have you heard the song by Meatloaf, "Dead Ringer for Love"?

The music starts after about 50 seconds:

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Robert Bannister
2017-03-27 23:37:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Day
Post by occam
I heard the expression "It's dead pretty" on a radio program (BrE). Odd
expression, bordering on the macabre? I cannot even imaging how it came
into use. "Dead boring" makes sense. Ditto "Dead silent". But pretty?
Squarely, directly; completely, totally
It hit him plumb in the middle of his face.
Years ago the well plumb dried out, not a drop of water in there
since.
He rode his bicycle plumb around the block.
I heard it used as a child, over 60 years ago (thought they were
saying 'plum') but not since.
I've heard 'dead' used occasionally as an intensifier.
Many Australian Aboriginals still use "deadly" to mean "really good".
--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972
Dingbat
2017-03-29 01:07:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Day
Post by occam
I heard the expression "It's dead pretty" on a radio program (BrE). Odd
expression, bordering on the macabre? I cannot even imaging how it came
into use. "Dead boring" makes sense. Ditto "Dead silent". But pretty?
Squarely, directly; completely, totally
Like plumb loco.
Post by Bill Day
I've heard 'dead' used occasionally as an intensifier.
Why is 'dead wrong' widely applicable but 'dead right' only in the context of a grim prediction or negative observation being right? That seems to indicate that it's not merely an intensifier.
Robert Bannister
2017-03-30 01:51:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dingbat
Post by Bill Day
Post by occam
I heard the expression "It's dead pretty" on a radio program
(BrE). Odd expression, bordering on the macabre? I cannot even
imaging how it came into use. "Dead boring" makes sense. Ditto
"Dead silent". But pretty?
Just a colloquial use similar to 'plumb' used as an adverb, as
in: Squarely, directly; completely, totally
Like plumb loco.
Post by Bill Day
I've heard 'dead' used occasionally as an intensifier.
Why is 'dead wrong' widely applicable but 'dead right' only in the
context of a grim prediction or negative observation being right?
That seems to indicate that it's not merely an intensifier.
But "dead on", "dead accurate" and "dead centre" are not negative at
all, and I'm not at all convinced that "dead right" is necessarily so
either.
--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972
Bob Martin
2017-03-30 06:58:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Dingbat
Post by Bill Day
Post by occam
I heard the expression "It's dead pretty" on a radio program
(BrE). Odd expression, bordering on the macabre? I cannot even
imaging how it came into use. "Dead boring" makes sense. Ditto
"Dead silent". But pretty?
Just a colloquial use similar to 'plumb' used as an adverb, as
in: Squarely, directly; completely, totally
Like plumb loco.
Post by Bill Day
I've heard 'dead' used occasionally as an intensifier.
Why is 'dead wrong' widely applicable but 'dead right' only in the
context of a grim prediction or negative observation being right?
That seems to indicate that it's not merely an intensifier.
But "dead on", "dead accurate" and "dead centre" are not negative at
all, and I'm not at all convinced that "dead right" is necessarily so
either.
Dead reckoning?
Robert Bannister
2017-03-31 03:24:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Martin
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Dingbat
Post by Bill Day
Post by occam
I heard the expression "It's dead pretty" on a radio program
(BrE). Odd expression, bordering on the macabre? I cannot even
imaging how it came into use. "Dead boring" makes sense. Ditto
"Dead silent". But pretty?
Just a colloquial use similar to 'plumb' used as an adverb, as
in: Squarely, directly; completely, totally
Like plumb loco.
Post by Bill Day
I've heard 'dead' used occasionally as an intensifier.
Why is 'dead wrong' widely applicable but 'dead right' only in the
context of a grim prediction or negative observation being right?
That seems to indicate that it's not merely an intensifier.
But "dead on", "dead accurate" and "dead centre" are not negative at
all, and I'm not at all convinced that "dead right" is necessarily so
either.
Dead reckoning?
Certainly not negative.
--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972
Dingbat
2017-03-29 00:54:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by occam
I heard the expression "It's dead pretty" on a radio program (BrE). Odd
expression, bordering on the macabre?
'pretty dead' would be macabre.
Post by occam
I cannot even imaging how it came
into use. "Dead boring" makes sense. Ditto "Dead silent". But pretty?
Sam Plusnet
2017-03-29 22:34:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dingbat
Post by occam
I heard the expression "It's dead pretty" on a radio program (BrE). Odd
expression, bordering on the macabre?
'pretty dead' would be macabre.
Post by occam
I cannot even imaging how it came
into use. "Dead boring" makes sense. Ditto "Dead silent". But pretty?
Drop dead Gorgeous?
--
Sam Plusnet
CDB
2017-03-30 12:23:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Dingbat
Post by occam
I heard the expression "It's dead pretty" on a radio program
(BrE). Odd expression, bordering on the macabre?
'pretty dead' would be macabre.
Post by occam
I cannot even imaging how it came into use. "Dead boring" makes
sense. Ditto "Dead silent". But pretty?
Drop dead Gorgeous?
Las guapas muertas, the dead pretty.

It seems to me that there is a natural expansion in the use of "dead"
from the meaning "bereft of life" to "still, unmoving" to "steady" to
"precise[ly]".

"Drop-dead gorgeous" is back at the start of the progression, with
"violet eyes to die for".
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