Discussion:
'Muhammad' most popular name In Britain in 2023
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occam
2024-12-05 12:06:49 UTC
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"Muhammad was the most popular name given to baby boys in England and
Wales in 2023, ousting Noah to take the top spot, official figures
showed on Thursday."

What surprised me as much as the popularity of 'Muhammad' was that
'Noah' was the previous top spot holder. Maybe it's because I no longer
live in the UK, but I'd be hard pressed to point at a Noah and say,
"What, you're a Noah too?"


source:
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/muhammad-was-most-popular-boys-baby-name-britain-2023-2024-12-05/
Hibou
2024-12-05 14:50:45 UTC
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Post by occam
"Muhammad was the most popular name given to baby boys in England and
Wales in 2023, ousting Noah to take the top spot, official figures
showed on Thursday."
What surprised me as much as the popularity of 'Muhammad' was that
'Noah' was the previous top spot holder. Maybe it's because I no longer
live in the UK, but I'd be hard pressed to point at a Noah and say,
"What, you're a Noah too?"
Noah way!
Post by occam
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/muhammad-was-most-popular-boys-baby-name-britain-2023-2024-12-05/
The ONS lists girls' names too:

<https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/livebirths/bulletins/babynamesenglandandwales/2023#top-baby-names-in-2023>

I was initially surprised at 'Muhammad' being commonest, but perhaps
it's an obvious and popular choice among Muslims. If non-Muslims favour
a variety of names, none of them would dominate the hit parade.
LionelEdwards
2024-12-05 15:53:34 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Hibou
Post by occam
"Muhammad was the most popular name given to baby boys in England and
Wales in 2023, ousting Noah to take the top spot, official figures
showed on Thursday."
What surprised me as much as the popularity of 'Muhammad' was that
'Noah' was the previous top spot holder. Maybe it's because I no longer
live in the UK, but I'd be hard pressed to point at a Noah and say,
"What, you're a Noah too?"
Noah way!
Post by occam
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/muhammad-was-most-popular-boys-baby-name-britain-2023-2024-12-05/
<https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/livebirths/bulletins/babynamesenglandandwales/2023#top-baby-names-in-2023>
I was initially surprised at 'Muhammad' being commonest, but perhaps
it's an obvious and popular choice among Muslims. If non-Muslims favour
a variety of names, none of them would dominate the hit parade.
We do go for the religious names though don't we?

Tom, Matt, Joe, Luke, John.

Unrelated: I expect George to make a reappearance soon,
but not Charles (no disrespect intended to KT24).

On the subject of religion though, KT24 is the only
postcode I know of that has a resident Romany chapel sect?
LionelEdwards
2024-12-05 17:51:04 UTC
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Post by LionelEdwards
Post by Hibou
Post by occam
"Muhammad was the most popular name given to baby boys in England and
Wales in 2023, ousting Noah to take the top spot, official figures
showed on Thursday."
What surprised me as much as the popularity of 'Muhammad' was that
'Noah' was the previous top spot holder. Maybe it's because I no longer
live in the UK, but I'd be hard pressed to point at a Noah and say,
"What, you're a Noah too?"
Noah way!
Post by occam
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/muhammad-was-most-popular-boys-baby-name-britain-2023-2024-12-05/
<https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/livebirths/bulletins/babynamesenglandandwales/2023#top-baby-names-in-2023>
I was initially surprised at 'Muhammad' being commonest, but perhaps
it's an obvious and popular choice among Muslims. If non-Muslims favour
a variety of names, none of them would dominate the hit parade.
We do go for the religious names though don't we?
Tom, Matt, Joe, Luke, John.
Unrelated: I expect George to make a reappearance soon,
but not Charles (no disrespect intended to KT24).
On the subject of religion though, KT24 is the only
postcode I know of that has a resident Romany chapel sect?
Its gun-totin' pastor is here:



If you know what "evangelical" or "Pentecostal" mean,
please don't share it with me because I'd rather not know.

Charles Wesley (or his brother) fancied themselves
as amateur witch-finders (witches are easy to detect; you
can work it out from their age, warts and cats). If anyone
can track down that particular episode in early Methodism
I would be interested in that.

The Wesleys wrote "Hark! The Herald Angels Sing", and
loads of other popular hymns.
Steve Hayes
2024-12-06 12:27:39 UTC
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Post by LionelEdwards
If you know what "evangelical" or "Pentecostal" mean,
please don't share it with me because I'd rather not know.
They've been pretty well skunked.
Post by LionelEdwards
Charles Wesley (or his brother) fancied themselves
as amateur witch-finders (witches are easy to detect; you
can work it out from their age, warts and cats). If anyone
can track down that particular episode in early Methodism
I would be interested in that.
I would also be interested... I thought that sort of attitude was
typified by King James of Authorised Bible fame.
Post by LionelEdwards
The Wesleys wrote "Hark! The Herald Angels Sing", and
loads of other popular hymns.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Bertel Lund Hansen
2024-12-05 17:00:51 UTC
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Post by Hibou
I was initially surprised at 'Muhammad' being commonest, but perhaps
it's an obvious and popular choice among Muslims. If non-Muslims favour
a variety of names, none of them would dominate the hit parade.
In Denmark [you know why] there are many more names in use which means
that it doesn't take much to become a leading name.

The top twenty girl's names, boy's names and lastnames are all pure
Danish.
--
Bertel
Kolt, Denmark
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2024-12-05 18:54:41 UTC
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Post by Bertel Lund Hansen
Post by Hibou
I was initially surprised at 'Muhammad' being commonest, but perhaps
it's an obvious and popular choice among Muslims. If non-Muslims favour
a variety of names, none of them would dominate the hit parade.
In Denmark [you know why] there are many more names in use which means
that it doesn't take much to become a leading name.
The top twenty girl's names, boy's names and lastnames are all pure
Danish.
In France the most popular names at present for babies are Emma for
girls and Gabriel for boys. Guess what my daughter chose as names for
her twins, born in 2015.
--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.
musika
2024-12-05 19:31:33 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Hibou
I was initially surprised at 'Muhammad' being commonest, but perhaps
it's an obvious and popular choice among Muslims. If non-Muslims favour
a variety of names, none of them would dominate the hit parade.
In France the most popular names at present for babies are Emma for
girls and Gabriel for boys. Guess what my daughter chose as names for
her twins, born in 2015.
Was it Stan and Oli?
--
Ray
UK
Sam Plusnet
2024-12-05 21:36:43 UTC
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Post by Hibou
Post by occam
"Muhammad was the most popular name given to baby boys in England and
Wales in 2023, ousting Noah to take the top spot, official figures
showed on Thursday."
What surprised me as much as the popularity  of 'Muhammad' was that
'Noah' was the previous top spot holder. Maybe it's because I no longer
live in the UK, but I'd be hard pressed to point at a Noah and say,
"What, you're a Noah too?"
Noah way!
Post by occam
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/muhammad-was-most-popular-boys-baby-
name-britain-2023-2024-12-05/
<https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/
birthsdeathsandmarriages/livebirths/bulletins/
babynamesenglandandwales/2023#top-baby-names-in-2023>
I was initially surprised at 'Muhammad' being commonest, but perhaps
it's an obvious and popular choice among Muslims. If non-Muslims favour
a variety of names, none of them would dominate the hit parade.
That's always the problem with "First Past the Post" systems.
--
Sam Plusnet
Hibou
2024-12-06 06:25:29 UTC
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Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Hibou
<https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/
birthsdeathsandmarriages/livebirths/bulletins/
babynamesenglandandwales/2023#top-baby-names-in-2023>
I was initially surprised at 'Muhammad' being commonest, but perhaps
it's an obvious and popular choice among Muslims. If non-Muslims
favour a variety of names, none of them would dominate the hit parade.
That's always the problem with "First Past the Post" systems.
First past the post has it's limitations, it's true. On the other hand,
France is suffering badly just now from its everyone-past-the-post
system. Germany's in a mess too. Thank goodness for the Channel and Brexit!
Peter Moylan
2024-12-06 07:55:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Hibou
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Hibou
<https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/
birthsdeathsandmarriages/livebirths/bulletins/
babynamesenglandandwales/2023#top-baby-names-in-2023>
I was initially surprised at 'Muhammad' being commonest, but
perhaps it's an obvious and popular choice among Muslims. If
non-Muslims favour a variety of names, none of them would
dominate the hit parade.
That's always the problem with "First Past the Post" systems.
First past the post has it's limitations, it's true. On the other
hand, France is suffering badly just now from its
everyone-past-the-post system. Germany's in a mess too. Thank
goodness for the Channel and Brexit!
You can say that now that the UK has a grey and colourless government,
one that doesn't do anything that might create controversy. I seem to
recall, however, that the UK has had some interesting unstable
governments in the past.
--
Peter Moylan ***@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW
Silvano
2024-12-06 10:44:46 UTC
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Post by Hibou
First past the post has it's limitations, it's true. On the other hand,
France is suffering badly just now from its everyone-past-the-post
system. Germany's in a mess too. Thank goodness for the Channel and Brexit!
The UK would be suffering exactly the same way if you had:
1) The SNP dominating in Northern England as well as in Scotland and the
rest split in two almost equal halves between Labour and the Tories or
Reform.
2) All three groups united only in their hate of the other two and
inability even to talk to each other about a coalition.

In case you don't know, France has a first-past-the post system. The
only difference is the second round among the 2 (sometimes 3 and very
rarely 4) candidates with the most votes in the first round, if no one
reached 50.01%.
Peter Moylan
2024-12-06 11:02:29 UTC
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Post by Silvano
In case you don't know, France has a first-past-the post system. The
only difference is the second round among the 2 (sometimes 3 and
very rarely 4) candidates with the most votes in the first round, if
no one reached 50.01%.
That second round is very similar to the distribution of second
preferences in a preferential system. The main difference is in cost;
running a second election is expensive, and something that could have
been avoided if people had just written down their second preference at
the first election.

What happens if nobody gets over 50% in the second round? A third
round, to discover people's third preferences?
--
Peter Moylan ***@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW
Silvano
2024-12-06 13:10:30 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Silvano
In case you don't know, France has a first-past-the post system. The
only difference is the second round among the 2 (sometimes 3 and
very rarely 4) candidates with the most votes in the first round, if
no one reached 50.01%.
That second round is very similar to the distribution of second
preferences in a preferential system. The main difference is in cost;
running a second election is expensive, and something that could have
been avoided if people had just written down their second preference at
the first election.
You're right about the cost, but the second round gives voters a chance
to think again.
Post by Peter Moylan
What happens if nobody gets over 50% in the second round? A third
round, to discover people's third preferences?
Pure first-past-the post in the second round. About 10% of the seats
were won with less than 50%, some with even less than 40%.

You can have a look here:
<https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A9sultats_par_d%C3%A9partement_des_%C3%A9lections_l%C3%A9gislatives_fran%C3%A7aises_de_2024>
I stopped counting at Oise (60).
Hibou
2024-12-06 14:12:21 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Silvano
In case you don't know, France has a first-past-the post system. The
only difference is the second round among the 2 (sometimes 3 and
very rarely 4) candidates with the most votes in the first round, if
no one reached 50.01%.
That second round is very similar to the distribution of second
preferences in a preferential system. The main difference is in cost;
running a second election is expensive, and something that could have
been avoided if people had just written down their second preference at
the first election. [...]
I'm not sure that cost is the main difference. The time between rounds
also allows people to think about what they've done - "Ooh er, look how
many have voted for the RN!" When the French voted in the second round
this year, they had the results of the first round before them:

<https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89lections_l%C3%A9gislatives_fran%C3%A7aises_de_2024#R%C3%A9sultats>

This is quite different to the Westminster first-past-the-post system.
It's a first-past-the-post-but-only-if-we-don't-change-our-minds system.
Hibou
2024-12-06 14:42:12 UTC
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Post by Hibou
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Silvano
In case you don't know, France has a first-past-the post system. The
only difference is the second round among the 2 (sometimes 3 and
very rarely 4) candidates with the most votes in the first round, if
no one reached 50.01%.
That second round is very similar to the distribution of second
preferences in a preferential system. The main difference is in cost;
running a second election is expensive, and something that could have
been avoided if people had just written down their second preference at
the first election. [...]
I'm not sure that cost is the main difference. The time between rounds
also allows people to think about what they've done - "Ooh er, look how
many have voted for the RN!" When the French voted in the second round
<https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89lections_l%C3%A9gislatives_fran%C3%A7aises_de_2024#R%C3%A9sultats>
This is quite different to the Westminster first-past-the-post system.
It's a first-past-the-post-but-only-if-we-don't-change-our-minds system.
Or something like that. It allows more scope for tactical voting - not
blind tactical voting, as here, but, in the second round, informed
tactical voting. Is that more likely to produce a hung Parliament? I
suspect it is.
Janet
2024-12-06 14:15:31 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Silvano
Post by Hibou
First past the post has it's limitations, it's true. On the other hand,
France is suffering badly just now from its everyone-past-the-post
system. Germany's in a mess too. Thank goodness for the Channel and Brexit!
1) The SNP dominating in Northern England as well as in
Scotland

You should have picked some more realistic hypothesis,
like "Trump elected by aliens to rule the moon, and make
it even greater than the USA"

<https://www.parliament.scot/msps/current-party-
balance>


and the
Post by Silvano
rest split in two almost equal halves between Labour and the Tories or
Reform.
https://members.parliament.uk/parties/commons

Janet UK
LionelEdwards
2024-12-06 15:14:00 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Silvano
Post by Silvano
Post by Hibou
First past the post has it's limitations, it's true. On the other hand,
France is suffering badly just now from its everyone-past-the-post
system. Germany's in a mess too. Thank goodness for the Channel and Brexit!
1) The SNP dominating in Northern England as well as in
Scotland
You should have picked some more realistic hypothesis,
like "Trump elected by aliens to rule the moon, and make
it even greater than the USA"
Last time Trump was in power he wanted to buy Greenland
from Denmark and turn it into the 51st State. The
Greenlanders rejected it.

What would you say if this time around he wanted to
buy Scotland?
Tony Cooper
2024-12-06 15:22:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by LionelEdwards
Post by Silvano
Post by Silvano
Post by Hibou
First past the post has it's limitations, it's true. On the other hand,
France is suffering badly just now from its everyone-past-the-post
system. Germany's in a mess too. Thank goodness for the Channel and Brexit!
1) The SNP dominating in Northern England as well as in
Scotland
You should have picked some more realistic hypothesis,
like "Trump elected by aliens to rule the moon, and make
it even greater than the USA"
Last time Trump was in power he wanted to buy Greenland
from Denmark and turn it into the 51st State. The
Greenlanders rejected it.
What would you say if this time around he wanted to
buy Scotland?
Actually, he recently suggested that Canada become the 51st State.

The suggestion was not met with approval by Trudeau. He mistakenly
thought Trump was joking.

https://apnews.com/article/canada-trump-tariffs-trudeau-trade-opposition-border-5d3dbbb4a701bb1676ee588bfbf2396a
J. J. Lodder
2024-12-06 20:19:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by LionelEdwards
Post by Silvano
Post by Silvano
Post by Hibou
First past the post has it's limitations, it's true. On the other hand,
France is suffering badly just now from its everyone-past-the-post
system. Germany's in a mess too. Thank goodness for the Channel and Brexit!
1) The SNP dominating in Northern England as well as in
Scotland
You should have picked some more realistic hypothesis,
like "Trump elected by aliens to rule the moon, and make
it even greater than the USA"
Last time Trump was in power he wanted to buy Greenland
from Denmark and turn it into the 51st State. The
Greenlanders rejected it.
What would you say if this time around he wanted to
buy Scotland?
Actually, he recently suggested that Canada become the 51st State.
The suggestion was not met with approval by Trudeau. He mistakenly
thought Trump was joking.
https://apnews.com/article/canada-trump-tariffs-trudeau-trade-opposition-borde
r-5d3dbbb4a701bb1676ee588bfbf2396a

Now that would be a great idea!
(if you remember that Canada is ten states, really)
It is unlikely tat Trump would have a majority in a new 120-seat senate.
Canada, so Trudeau, should also have the power
to nominate two extra supreme court judges.

It would be insanely great even,

Jan
Sam Plusnet
2024-12-06 20:22:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by LionelEdwards
Post by Silvano
Post by Silvano
Post by Hibou
First past the post has it's limitations, it's true. On the other hand,
France is suffering badly just now from its everyone-past-the-post
system. Germany's in a mess too. Thank goodness for the Channel and Brexit!
1) The SNP dominating in Northern England as well as in
Scotland
You should have picked some more realistic hypothesis,
like "Trump elected by aliens to rule the moon, and make
it even greater than the USA"
Last time Trump was in power he wanted to buy Greenland
from Denmark and turn it into the 51st State. The
Greenlanders rejected it.
What would you say if this time around he wanted to
buy Scotland?
Actually, he recently suggested that Canada become the 51st State.
The suggestion was not met with approval by Trudeau. He mistakenly
thought Trump was joking.
https://apnews.com/article/canada-trump-tariffs-trudeau-trade-opposition-border-5d3dbbb4a701bb1676ee588bfbf2396a
Trump often makes some statement or claim, then waits to see how
everyone reacts. He might later say he was only joking.
I think he doesn't really care how people react, only that they dance to
his tune.
--
Sam Plusnet
Janet
2024-12-06 15:41:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In article <78155c424630a12c85f64b61b72cde50
@www.novabbs.com>, ***@gmx.com says...
Post by LionelEdwards
Post by Silvano
Post by Silvano
Post by Hibou
First past the post has it's limitations, it's true. On the other hand,
France is suffering badly just now from its everyone-past-the-post
system. Germany's in a mess too. Thank goodness for the Channel and Brexit!
1) The SNP dominating in Northern England as well as in
Scotland
You should have picked some more realistic hypothesis,
like "Trump elected by aliens to rule the moon, and make
it even greater than the USA"
Last time Trump was in power he wanted to buy Greenland
from Denmark and turn it into the 51st State. The
Greenlanders rejected it.
What would you say if this time around he wanted to
buy Scotland?
He's tried before, several times. Michael Forbes sent
him home to think again.


Janet.
occam
2024-12-07 09:03:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Janet
In article <78155c424630a12c85f64b61b72cde50
@www.novabbs.com>, ***@gmx.com says...
Post by LionelEdwards
Post by Silvano
Post by Silvano
Post by Hibou
First past the post has it's limitations, it's true. On the other hand,
France is suffering badly just now from its everyone-past-the-post
system. Germany's in a mess too. Thank goodness for the Channel and Brexit!
1) The SNP dominating in Northern England as well as in
Scotland
You should have picked some more realistic hypothesis,
like "Trump elected by aliens to rule the moon, and make
it even greater than the USA"
Last time Trump was in power he wanted to buy Greenland
from Denmark and turn it into the 51st State. The
Greenlanders rejected it.
What would you say if this time around he wanted to
buy Scotland?
He's tried before, several times. Michael Forbes sent
him home to think again.
Now that he is to become President again, he may try again. One golf
course at a time.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2024-12-07 10:04:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by occam
Post by Janet
In article <78155c424630a12c85f64b61b72cde50
@www.novabbs.com>, ***@gmx.com says...
Post by LionelEdwards
Post by Silvano
Post by Silvano
Post by Hibou
First past the post has it's limitations, it's true. On the other hand,
France is suffering badly just now from its everyone-past-the-post
system. Germany's in a mess too. Thank goodness for the Channel and Brexit!
1) The SNP dominating in Northern England as well as in
Scotland
You should have picked some more realistic hypothesis,
like "Trump elected by aliens to rule the moon, and make
it even greater than the USA"
Last time Trump was in power he wanted to buy Greenland
from Denmark and turn it into the 51st State. The
Greenlanders rejected it.
What would you say if this time around he wanted to
buy Scotland?
He's tried before, several times. Michael Forbes sent
him home to think again.
Now that he is to become President again, he may try again. One golf
course at a time.
We're honoured to have him in France today. It was the main news this
morning when he arrived with 20 cars and many motorbikes (who pays for
those? I wonder), something to do with Notre Dame de Paris paling into
insignificance by comparison. I didn't think France allowed entry to
foreigners convicted of crimes in their home countries (just one, let
alone 34), but maybe if you're rich enough that doesn't apply.
--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.
occam
2024-12-07 11:34:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by occam
Post by Janet
In article <78155c424630a12c85f64b61b72cde50
@www.novabbs.com>, ***@gmx.com says...
Post by LionelEdwards
Post by Silvano
Post by Silvano
Post by Hibou
First past the post has it's limitations, it's true. On the other hand,
France is suffering badly just now from its everyone-past-the-post
system. Germany's in a mess too. Thank goodness for the Channel and Brexit!
1) The SNP dominating in Northern England as well as in
Scotland
You should have picked some more realistic hypothesis,
like  "Trump elected by aliens to rule the moon, and make
it even greater than the USA"
Last time Trump was in power he wanted to buy Greenland
from Denmark and turn it into the 51st State. The
Greenlanders rejected it.
What would you say if this time around he wanted to
buy Scotland?
He's tried before, several times. Michael Forbes sent
him home to think again.
Now that he is to become President again, he may try again. One golf
course at a time.
We're honoured to have him in France today. It was the main news this
morning when he arrived with 20 cars and many motorbikes (who pays for
those? I wonder),
You (France) do.
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
something to do with Notre Dame de Paris paling into
insignificance by comparison. I didn't think France allowed entry to
foreigners convicted of crimes in their home countries (just one, let
alone 34), but maybe if you're rich enough that doesn't apply.
As long as it creates a diversion from Marcon's woes, anything goes. I
understand your embattled President is struggling to hang on to his
post, following the toppling of the Prime Minister.
Sam Plusnet
2024-12-07 20:39:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by occam
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by occam
Post by Janet
In article <78155c424630a12c85f64b61b72cde50
@www.novabbs.com>, ***@gmx.com says...
Post by LionelEdwards
Post by Silvano
Post by Silvano
Post by Hibou
First past the post has it's limitations, it's true. On the other hand,
France is suffering badly just now from its everyone-past-the-post
system. Germany's in a mess too. Thank goodness for the Channel and Brexit!
1) The SNP dominating in Northern England as well as in
Scotland
You should have picked some more realistic hypothesis,
like  "Trump elected by aliens to rule the moon, and make
it even greater than the USA"
Last time Trump was in power he wanted to buy Greenland
from Denmark and turn it into the 51st State. The
Greenlanders rejected it.
What would you say if this time around he wanted to
buy Scotland?
He's tried before, several times. Michael Forbes sent
him home to think again.
Now that he is to become President again, he may try again. One golf
course at a time.
We're honoured to have him in France today. It was the main news this
morning when he arrived with 20 cars and many motorbikes (who pays for
those? I wonder),
You (France) do.
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
something to do with Notre Dame de Paris paling into
insignificance by comparison. I didn't think France allowed entry to
foreigners convicted of crimes in their home countries (just one, let
alone 34), but maybe if you're rich enough that doesn't apply.
As long as it creates a diversion from Marcon's woes, anything goes. I
understand your embattled President is struggling to hang on to his
post, following the toppling of the Prime Minister.
It might be an unsubtle way of saying
"We have problems here in France - but things could be much much worse."
--
Sam Plusnet
Kerr-Mudd, John
2024-12-09 12:38:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sat, 7 Dec 2024 20:39:56 +0000
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by occam
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by occam
Post by Janet
In article <78155c424630a12c85f64b61b72cde50
@www.novabbs.com>, ***@gmx.com says...
Post by LionelEdwards
Post by Silvano
Post by Silvano
Post by Hibou
First past the post has it's limitations, it's true. On the other hand,
France is suffering badly just now from its everyone-past-the-post
system. Germany's in a mess too. Thank goodness for the Channel and
Brexit!
1) The SNP dominating in Northern England as well as in
Scotland
You should have picked some more realistic hypothesis,
like  "Trump elected by aliens to rule the moon, and make
it even greater than the USA"
Last time Trump was in power he wanted to buy Greenland
from Denmark and turn it into the 51st State. The
Greenlanders rejected it.
What would you say if this time around he wanted to
buy Scotland?
He's tried before, several times. Michael Forbes sent
him home to think again.
Now that he is to become President again, he may try again. One golf
course at a time.
We're honoured to have him in France today. It was the main news this
morning when he arrived with 20 cars and many motorbikes (who pays for
those? I wonder),
You (France) do.
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
something to do with Notre Dame de Paris paling into
insignificance by comparison. I didn't think France allowed entry to
foreigners convicted of crimes in their home countries (just one, let
alone 34), but maybe if you're rich enough that doesn't apply.
As long as it creates a diversion from Marcon's woes, anything goes. I
understand your embattled President is struggling to hang on to his
post, following the toppling of the Prime Minister.
It might be an unsubtle way of saying
"We have problems here in France - but things could be much much worse."
At least it isn't Syria (Palestine, Yemen....)
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug
J. J. Lodder
2024-12-09 13:22:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by occam
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by occam
Post by Janet
In article <78155c424630a12c85f64b61b72cde50
@www.novabbs.com>, ***@gmx.com says...
Post by LionelEdwards
Post by Silvano
Post by Silvano
Post by Hibou
First past the post has it's limitations, it's true. On the other hand,
France is suffering badly just now from its everyone-past-the-post
system. Germany's in a mess too. Thank goodness for the Channel and Brexit!
1) The SNP dominating in Northern England as well as in
Scotland
You should have picked some more realistic hypothesis,
like "Trump elected by aliens to rule the moon, and make
it even greater than the USA"
Last time Trump was in power he wanted to buy Greenland
from Denmark and turn it into the 51st State. The
Greenlanders rejected it.
What would you say if this time around he wanted to
buy Scotland?
He's tried before, several times. Michael Forbes sent
him home to think again.
Now that he is to become President again, he may try again. One golf
course at a time.
We're honoured to have him in France today. It was the main news this
morning when he arrived with 20 cars and many motorbikes (who pays for
those? I wonder),
You (France) do.
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
something to do with Notre Dame de Paris paling into
insignificance by comparison. I didn't think France allowed entry to
foreigners convicted of crimes in their home countries (just one, let
alone 34), but maybe if you're rich enough that doesn't apply.
As long as it creates a diversion from Marcon's woes, anything goes. I
understand your embattled President is struggling to hang on to his
post, following the toppling of the Prime Minister.
He has no problems with his post.
Nothing and nobody can force him to give it up prematurely.
The Gaullist French constitution of the Vieme Republique
is almost as bad as the American one,

Jan

Athel Cornish-Bowden
2024-12-07 18:25:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by occam
Post by Janet
In article <78155c424630a12c85f64b61b72cde50
@www.novabbs.com>, ***@gmx.com says...
Post by LionelEdwards
Post by Silvano
Post by Silvano
Post by Hibou
First past the post has it's limitations, it's true. On the other hand,
France is suffering badly just now from its everyone-past-the-post
system. Germany's in a mess too. Thank goodness for the Channel and Brexit!
1) The SNP dominating in Northern England as well as in
Scotland
You should have picked some more realistic hypothesis,
like "Trump elected by aliens to rule the moon, and make
it even greater than the USA"
Last time Trump was in power he wanted to buy Greenland
from Denmark and turn it into the 51st State. The
Greenlanders rejected it.
What would you say if this time around he wanted to
buy Scotland?
He's tried before, several times. Michael Forbes sent
him home to think again.
Now that he is to become President again, he may try again. One golf
course at a time.
We're honoured to have him in France today. It was the main news this
morning when he arrived with 20 cars and many motorbikes (who pays for
those? I wonder), something to do with Notre Dame de Paris paling into
insignificance by comparison. I didn't think France allowed entry to
foreigners convicted of crimes in their home countries (just one, let
alone 34), but maybe if you're rich enough that doesn't apply.
True to form, the orange felon arived 45 minutes late at the Élysée for
his meeting with Macron, so he had to meet Volodymyr Zelensky, even
though he had indicated earlier that hedidn't want to.
--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.
J. J. Lodder
2024-12-07 21:35:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by occam
Post by Janet
In article <78155c424630a12c85f64b61b72cde50
@www.novabbs.com>, ***@gmx.com says...
Post by LionelEdwards
Post by Silvano
Post by Silvano
Post by Hibou
First past the post has it's limitations, it's true. On the other
hand, France is suffering badly just now from its
everyone-past-the-post system. Germany's in a mess too. Thank
goodness for the Channel and Brexit!
1) The SNP dominating in Northern England as well as in
Scotland
You should have picked some more realistic hypothesis,
like "Trump elected by aliens to rule the moon, and make
it even greater than the USA"
Last time Trump was in power he wanted to buy Greenland
from Denmark and turn it into the 51st State. The
Greenlanders rejected it.
What would you say if this time around he wanted to
buy Scotland?
He's tried before, several times. Michael Forbes sent
him home to think again.
Now that he is to become President again, he may try again. One golf
course at a time.
We're honoured to have him in France today. It was the main news this
morning when he arrived with 20 cars and many motorbikes (who pays for
those? I wonder), something to do with Notre Dame de Paris paling into
insignificance by comparison. I didn't think France allowed entry to
foreigners convicted of crimes in their home countries (just one, let
alone 34), but maybe if you're rich enough that doesn't apply.
True to form, the orange felon arived 45 minutes late at the Élysée for
his meeting with Macron, so he had to meet Volodymyr Zelensky, even
though he had indicated earlier that hedidn't want to.
It was 'a good and productive trilateral meeting' according to Zelensky.
He thanked Macron for organising it,
so I guess it wasn't a meeting by accident.

The Trump definitely looked bored, in Notre Dame.
Guess he had the good luck to have the jet lag helping him,
or he might have fallen asleep,

Jan
Tony Cooper
2024-12-08 05:23:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by occam
Post by Janet
In article <78155c424630a12c85f64b61b72cde50
@www.novabbs.com>, ***@gmx.com says...
Post by LionelEdwards
Post by Silvano
Post by Silvano
Post by Hibou
First past the post has it's limitations, it's true. On the other
hand, France is suffering badly just now from its
everyone-past-the-post system. Germany's in a mess too. Thank
goodness for the Channel and Brexit!
1) The SNP dominating in Northern England as well as in
Scotland
You should have picked some more realistic hypothesis,
like "Trump elected by aliens to rule the moon, and make
it even greater than the USA"
Last time Trump was in power he wanted to buy Greenland
from Denmark and turn it into the 51st State. The
Greenlanders rejected it.
What would you say if this time around he wanted to
buy Scotland?
He's tried before, several times. Michael Forbes sent
him home to think again.
Now that he is to become President again, he may try again. One golf
course at a time.
We're honoured to have him in France today. It was the main news this
morning when he arrived with 20 cars and many motorbikes (who pays for
those? I wonder), something to do with Notre Dame de Paris paling into
insignificance by comparison. I didn't think France allowed entry to
foreigners convicted of crimes in their home countries (just one, let
alone 34), but maybe if you're rich enough that doesn't apply.
True to form, the orange felon arived 45 minutes late at the Élysée for
his meeting with Macron, so he had to meet Volodymyr Zelensky, even
though he had indicated earlier that hedidn't want to.
It was 'a good and productive trilateral meeting' according to Zelensky.
He thanked Macron for organising it,
so I guess it wasn't a meeting by accident.
The Trump definitely looked bored, in Notre Dame.
Guess he had the good luck to have the jet lag helping him,
or he might have fallen asleep,
Jan
Some news reports indicated that his manner of greeting Macron was
more an arm wrestling competition than a handshake.
J. J. Lodder
2024-12-08 11:30:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by occam
Post by Janet
In article <78155c424630a12c85f64b61b72cde50
@www.novabbs.com>, ***@gmx.com says...
Post by LionelEdwards
Post by Silvano
Post by Silvano
Post by Hibou
First past the post has it's limitations, it's true. On the other
hand, France is suffering badly just now from its
everyone-past-the-post system. Germany's in a mess too. Thank
goodness for the Channel and Brexit!
1) The SNP dominating in Northern England as well as in
Scotland
You should have picked some more realistic hypothesis,
like "Trump elected by aliens to rule the moon, and make
it even greater than the USA"
Last time Trump was in power he wanted to buy Greenland
from Denmark and turn it into the 51st State. The
Greenlanders rejected it.
What would you say if this time around he wanted to
buy Scotland?
He's tried before, several times. Michael Forbes sent
him home to think again.
Now that he is to become President again, he may try again. One golf
course at a time.
We're honoured to have him in France today. It was the main news this
morning when he arrived with 20 cars and many motorbikes (who pays for
those? I wonder), something to do with Notre Dame de Paris paling into
insignificance by comparison. I didn't think France allowed entry to
foreigners convicted of crimes in their home countries (just one, let
alone 34), but maybe if you're rich enough that doesn't apply.
True to form, the orange felon arived 45 minutes late at the Élysée for
his meeting with Macron, so he had to meet Volodymyr Zelensky, even
though he had indicated earlier that hedidn't want to.
It was 'a good and productive trilateral meeting' according to Zelensky.
He thanked Macron for organising it,
so I guess it wasn't a meeting by accident.
The Trump definitely looked bored, in Notre Dame.
Guess he had the good luck to have the jet lag helping him,
or he might have fallen asleep,
Jan
Some news reports indicated that his manner of greeting Macron was
more an arm wrestling competition than a handshake.
Quite likely. I guess that the Trump is still sore
about having been bested by Macron at a previous White House meeting.

Do have a look at the pictures. The way Macron is looking is hilarious,
(and he won again)

Jan
Peter Moylan
2024-12-06 22:37:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by LionelEdwards
Last time Trump was in power he wanted to buy Greenland
from Denmark and turn it into the 51st State. The
Greenlanders rejected it.
What would you say if this time around he wanted to
buy Scotland?
I gather that Scotland has some golf courses that Trump would like to have.
--
Peter Moylan ***@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW
charles
2024-12-07 09:00:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Last time Trump was in power he wanted to buy Greenland from Denmark
and turn it into the 51st State. The Greenlanders rejected it.
What would you say if this time around he wanted to buy Scotland?
I gather that Scotland has some golf courses that Trump would like to have.
He's bought one and built another.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té²
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Sam Plusnet
2024-12-07 20:41:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by charles
Post by Peter Moylan
Last time Trump was in power he wanted to buy Greenland from Denmark
and turn it into the 51st State. The Greenlanders rejected it.
What would you say if this time around he wanted to buy Scotland?
I gather that Scotland has some golf courses that Trump would like to have.
He's bought one and built another.
Hasn't he been losing money on them every year?

(Probably not _his_ money, of course.)
--
Sam Plusnet
Janet
2024-12-07 21:25:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In article <Ip25P.106$***@fx14.ams1>, ***@home.com
says...
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by charles
Post by Peter Moylan
Last time Trump was in power he wanted to buy Greenland from Denmark
and turn it into the 51st State. The Greenlanders rejected it.
What would you say if this time around he wanted to buy Scotland?
I gather that Scotland has some golf courses that Trump would like to have.
He's bought one and built another.
Hasn't he been losing money on them every year?
Hard to tell, because of the faked accounts.

< https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-
orkney-shetland-66933929>

" A judge has ruled that Donald Trump and his company
are liable for the "false valuation" of the former
president's golf course in Aberdeenshire.

The detail is part of a New York Supreme Court ruling that
Mr Trump "repeatedly" misrepresented his wealth by
hundreds of millions of dollars.

Financial statements in the United States claimed the
controversial course at Menie had permission to build more
residential homes than was the case.

Mr Trump has denied any wrongdoing.

New York Attorney General Letitia James' civil action
against Mr Trump, his two adult sons and the Trump
Organization accuses them of lying about his net worth and
values of assets around the world between 2011 and 2021."

Janet
Peter Moylan
2024-12-07 22:43:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Janet
Mr Trump has denied any wrongdoing.
You can put that on a rubber stamp.
--
Peter Moylan ***@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW
J. J. Lodder
2024-12-06 10:48:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Hibou
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Hibou
<https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/
birthsdeathsandmarriages/livebirths/bulletins/
babynamesenglandandwales/2023#top-baby-names-in-2023>
I was initially surprised at 'Muhammad' being commonest, but perhaps
it's an obvious and popular choice among Muslims. If non-Muslims
favour a variety of names, none of them would dominate the hit parade.
That's always the problem with "First Past the Post" systems.
First past the post has it's limitations, it's true. On the other hand,
France is suffering badly just now from its everyone-past-the-post
system.
Apart from the minor detail that the French don't have that.
Post by Hibou
Germany's in a mess too. Thank goodness for the Channel and Brexit!
Right! Them Froggies should have invited the Boris for president!

Jan
Sam Plusnet
2024-12-06 20:26:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Hibou
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Hibou
<https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/
birthsdeathsandmarriages/livebirths/bulletins/
babynamesenglandandwales/2023#top-baby-names-in-2023>
I was initially surprised at 'Muhammad' being commonest, but perhaps
it's an obvious and popular choice among Muslims. If non-Muslims
favour a variety of names, none of them would dominate the hit parade.
That's always the problem with "First Past the Post" systems.
First past the post has it's limitations, it's true. On the other hand,
France is suffering badly just now from its everyone-past-the-post
system.
Apart from the minor detail that the French don't have that.
Post by Hibou
Germany's in a mess too. Thank goodness for the Channel and Brexit!
Right! Them Froggies should have invited the Boris for president!
For a very modest fee, we could arrange to send him over in a small boat.

I knew he could waffle and make a series of noises in English without
actually saying anything coherent.
A recent interview shows he can do something similar in French.
--
Sam Plusnet
J. J. Lodder
2024-12-06 21:38:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Hibou
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Hibou
<https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/
birthsdeathsandmarriages/livebirths/bulletins/
babynamesenglandandwales/2023#top-baby-names-in-2023>
I was initially surprised at 'Muhammad' being commonest, but perhaps
it's an obvious and popular choice among Muslims. If non-Muslims
favour a variety of names, none of them would dominate the hit parade.
That's always the problem with "First Past the Post" systems.
First past the post has it's limitations, it's true. On the other hand,
France is suffering badly just now from its everyone-past-the-post
system.
Apart from the minor detail that the French don't have that.
Post by Hibou
Germany's in a mess too. Thank goodness for the Channel and Brexit!
Right! Them Froggies should have invited the Boris for president!
For a very modest fee, we could arrange to send him over in a small boat.
You should have a supply of hardly used second hand ones.
Post by Sam Plusnet
I knew he could waffle and make a series of noises in English without
actually saying anything coherent.
A recent interview shows he can do something similar in French.
His early education was by the Belgians, in Brussels,
so it is possible that his French is very good indeed.
He may be as coherent in French as he is in English,

Jan
Aidan Kehoe
2024-12-06 07:02:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
[...] I was initially surprised at 'Muhammad' being commonest, but perhaps
it's an obvious and popular choice among Muslims. If non-Muslims favour a
variety of names, none of them would dominate the hit parade.
The usual complication of this is that the different transliterations into Latin
script of محمّد reduce the overall total. Any boy with the name Mehmet,
Mohamed, Mohammed, Muhammad, Muhamad or Magomed was named after the founder of
Islam and from the looks of things the total is probably under-counted.
--
‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
(C. Moore)
Chris Elvidge
2024-12-05 17:25:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by occam
"Muhammad was the most popular name given to baby boys in England and
Wales in 2023, ousting Noah to take the top spot, official figures
showed on Thursday."
What surprised me as much as the popularity of 'Muhammad' was that
'Noah' was the previous top spot holder. Maybe it's because I no longer
live in the UK, but I'd be hard pressed to point at a Noah and say,
"What, you're a Noah too?"
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/muhammad-was-most-popular-boys-baby-name-britain-2023-2024-12-05/
Reported as 0.48% of births
Does it take into account different spellings M[o|u]hamm[a|e]d?
--
Chris Elvidge, England
NO ONE IS INTERESTED IN MY UNDERPANTS
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2024-12-05 18:55:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Chris Elvidge
Post by occam
"Muhammad was the most popular name given to baby boys in England and
Wales in 2023, ousting Noah to take the top spot, official figures
showed on Thursday."
What surprised me as much as the popularity of 'Muhammad' was that
'Noah' was the previous top spot holder. Maybe it's because I no longer
live in the UK, but I'd be hard pressed to point at a Noah and say,
"What, you're a Noah too?"
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/muhammad-was-most-popular-boys-baby-name-britain-2023-2024-12-05/
Reported as 0.48% of births
Does it take into account different spellings M[o|u]hamm[a|e]d?
Not to mention Mehmet etc.
--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.
occam
2024-12-06 08:49:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Chris Elvidge
Post by occam
"Muhammad was the most popular name given to baby boys in England and
Wales in 2023, ousting Noah to take the top spot, official figures
showed on Thursday."
What surprised me as much as the popularity  of 'Muhammad' was that
'Noah' was the previous top spot holder. Maybe it's because I no longer
live in the UK, but I'd be hard pressed to point at a Noah and say,
"What, you're a Noah too?"
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/muhammad-was-most-popular-boys-baby-
name-britain-2023-2024-12-05/
Reported as 0.48% of births
Does it take into account different spellings M[o|u]hamm[a|e]d?
Not to mention Mehmet etc.
Or 'Mo', abbreviation used in the UK. I am also wondering if second
names are included in the count? It is conceivable that a variant of
Mohammad could follow another first name e.g. Mukhtar, Hussein, etc. The
prophet is never too far from Muslim minds.
occam
2024-12-05 23:24:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Chris Elvidge
Post by occam
"Muhammad was the most popular name given to baby boys in England and
Wales in 2023, ousting Noah to take the top spot, official figures
showed on Thursday."
What surprised me as much as the popularity  of 'Muhammad' was that
'Noah' was the previous top spot holder. Maybe it's because I no longer
live in the UK, but I'd be hard pressed to point at a Noah and say,
"What, you're a Noah too?"
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/muhammad-was-most-popular-boys-baby-name-britain-2023-2024-12-05/
Reported as 0.48% of births
Does it take into account different spellings M[o|u]hamm[a|e]d?
No, it only counts the British Standard spellings of 'Mohammad'. (It
wouldn't be fair on Noah otherwise.)
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