two sentences from The Catcher in the Rye

Discussion:

(too old to reply)

arthurvv vart

2023-10-14 02:02:36 UTC

1) t wasn't too far, but it was cold as hell, and the snow made it hard
for walking, and my Gladstones kept banging hell out of my legs.

2) I just sort of sat and not did anything.

Source:

https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Catcher_in_the_Rye/FqSiDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22made+it+hard+for+walking%22&pg=PT52&printsec=frontcover

https://tinyurl.com/yexvp9jk

Both sentences are on the same page!

Are they grammatical?
Are they idiomatic?
Are they regional?

I'd use 'made it hard to walk' in '1' and 'didn't do anything' in '2'.

I know the style is very slangy. I like that. But these sentences
seemed a bit strange to me.

--
Gratefully,
Navi

Riding the night train in the Twilight Zone of the English language
Interested in structures on the margins of grammaticality
Obsessed with ambiguity

Lionel Edwards

2023-10-14 09:45:44 UTC

Permalink

That link doesn't work for me, but the whole text is available via
this link:

<https://www.uzickagimnazija.edu.rs/files/Catcher%20in%20the%20Rye.pdf>

The first paragraph sets the tone of this great book:

"If you really want to hear about it, the first thing you'll probably want to know is
where I was born, an what my lousy childhood was like, and how my parents were
occupied and all before they had me, and all that David Copperfield kind of crap, but I
don't feel like going into it, if you want to know the truth. In the first place, that stuff
bores me, and in the second place, my parents would have about two hemorrhages apiece
if I told anything pretty personal about them. They're quite touchy about anything like
that, especially my father. They're nice and all--I'm not saying that--but they're also
touchy as hell. Besides, I'm not going to tell you my whole goddam autobiography or
anything. I'll just tell you about this madman stuff that happened to me around last
Christmas just before I got pretty run-down and had to come out here and take it easy. I
mean that's all I told D.B. about, and he's my brother and all. He's in Hollywood. That
isn't too far from this crumby place, and he comes over and visits me practically every
week end. He's going to drive me home when I go home next month maybe. He just got a
Jaguar. One of those little English jobs that can do around two hundred miles an hour. It
cost him damn near four thousand bucks. He's got a lot of dough, now. He didn't use to.
He used to be just a regular writer, when he was home. He wrote this terrific book of
short stories, The Secret Goldfish, in case you never heard of him. The best one in it was
"The Secret Goldfish." It was about this little kid that wouldn't let anybody look at his
goldfish because he'd bought it with his own money. It killed me. Now he's out in
Hollywood, D.B., being a prostitute. If there's one thing I hate, it's the movies. Don't even
mention them to me."

There is regional idiom everywhere - and these questions miss the point I don't know
about the misspelling of "haemorrhages ".

Post by arthurvv vart
Both sentences are on the same page!
Are they grammatical?
Are they idiomatic?
Are they regional?
I'd use 'made it hard to walk' in '1' and 'didn't do anything' in '2'.
I know the style is very slangy. I like that. But these sentences
seemed a bit strange to me.
--
Gratefully,
Navi
Riding the night train in the Twilight Zone of the English language
Interested in structures on the margins of grammaticality
Obsessed with ambiguity

lar3ryca

2023-10-14 18:58:20 UTC

Permalink

Post by Lionel Edwards

That link doesn't work for me, but the whole text is available via
<https://www.uzickagimnazija.edu.rs/files/Catcher%20in%20the%20Rye.pdf>
"If you really want to hear about it, the first thing you'll probably want to know is
where I was born, an what my lousy childhood was like, and how my parents were
occupied and all before they had me, and all that David Copperfield kind of crap, but I
don't feel like going into it, if you want to know the truth. In the first place, that stuff
bores me, and in the second place, my parents would have about two hemorrhages apiece
if I told anything pretty personal about them. They're quite touchy about anything like
that, especially my father. They're nice and all--I'm not saying that--but they're also
touchy as hell. Besides, I'm not going to tell you my whole goddam autobiography or
anything. I'll just tell you about this madman stuff that happened to me around last
Christmas just before I got pretty run-down and had to come out here and take it easy. I
mean that's all I told D.B. about, and he's my brother and all. He's in Hollywood. That
isn't too far from this crumby place, and he comes over and visits me practically every
week end. He's going to drive me home when I go home next month maybe. He just got a
Jaguar. One of those little English jobs that can do around two hundred miles an hour. It
cost him damn near four thousand bucks. He's got a lot of dough, now. He didn't use to.
He used to be just a regular writer, when he was home. He wrote this terrific book of
short stories, The Secret Goldfish, in case you never heard of him. The best one in it was
"The Secret Goldfish." It was about this little kid that wouldn't let anybody look at his
goldfish because he'd bought it with his own money. It killed me. Now he's out in
Hollywood, D.B., being a prostitute. If there's one thing I hate, it's the movies. Don't even
mention them to me."
There is regional idiom everywhere - and these questions miss the point I don't know
about the misspelling of "haemorrhages ".

It is not misspelled. Salinger was an American, and that's the way they
(and us Canucks) spell it.

Post by Lionel Edwards

--
English is difficult.
It can be understood through tough, thorough thought, though.

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2023-10-14 20:25:53 UTC

Permalink

Post by lar3ryca

Post by Lionel Edwards

That link doesn't work for me, but the whole text is available via
<https://www.uzickagimnazija.edu.rs/files/Catcher%20in%20the%20Rye.pdf>
"If you really want to hear about it, the first thing you'll probably want to know is
where I was born, an what my lousy childhood was like, and how my parents were
occupied and all before they had me, and all that David Copperfield kind of crap, but I
don't feel like going into it, if you want to know the truth. In the
first place, that stuff
bores me, and in the second place, my parents would have about two hemorrhages apiece
if I told anything pretty personal about them. They're quite touchy about anything like
that, especially my father. They're nice and all--I'm not saying that--but they're also
touchy as hell. Besides, I'm not going to tell you my whole goddam autobiography or
anything. I'll just tell you about this madman stuff that happened to me around last
Christmas just before I got pretty run-down and had to come out here and take it easy. I
mean that's all I told D.B. about, and he's my brother and all. He's in Hollywood. That
isn't too far from this crumby place, and he comes over and visits me practically every
week end. He's going to drive me home when I go home next month maybe. He just got a
Jaguar. One of those little English jobs that can do around two hundred miles an hour. It
cost him damn near four thousand bucks. He's got a lot of dough, now. He didn't use to.
He used to be just a regular writer, when he was home. He wrote this terrific book of
short stories, The Secret Goldfish, in case you never heard of him. The
best one in it was
"The Secret Goldfish." It was about this little kid that wouldn't let anybody look at his
goldfish because he'd bought it with his own money. It killed me. Now he's out in
Hollywood, D.B., being a prostitute. If there's one thing I hate, it's
the movies. Don't even
mention them to me."
There is regional idiom everywhere - and these questions miss the point I don't know
about the misspelling of "haemorrhages ".

It is not misspelled. Salinger was an American, and that's the way they
(and us Canucks) spell it.

Yes, I was surprised to see that criticism, but then, although I don't
often need to write "haemorrhage" I do write "haemoglobin" and "haem"
quite often, so I'm familiar with the cross-Atlantic differences.

Post by lar3ryca

Post by Lionel Edwards

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 36 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

Jerry Friedman

2023-10-14 14:28:01 UTC

Permalink

Post by arthurvv vart
1) t wasn't too far, but it was cold as hell, and the snow made it hard
for walking, and my Gladstones kept banging hell out of my legs.
2) I just sort of sat and not did anything.
https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Catcher_in_the_Rye/FqSiDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22made+it+hard+for+walking%22&pg=PT52&printsec=frontcover
https://tinyurl.com/yexvp9jk
Both sentences are on the same page!
Are they grammatical?
Are they idiomatic?
Are they regional?
I'd use 'made it hard to walk' in '1' and 'didn't do anything' in '2'.
I know the style is very slangy. I like that. But these sentences
seemed a bit strange to me.

Both strange. There are only two relevant Google hits for 1 other than
quotations from TCitR, and one is from a site that I suspect is not by
a native speaker. 2 is even stranger (though Google finds examples
of "did not did anything" and "have not did anything". I suppose
Salinger might have heard someone accidentally come up with it
once.

--
Jerry Friedman

Peter T. Daniels

2023-10-14 15:49:23 UTC

Permalink

Am I remembering correctly -- the first and only time I read it was the
day I had to go up to the Loop for my draft physical (even though the
draft was over by Jan '73), because it seemed appropriate -- that the
reason he's writing it (see Lionel's quote of the opening paragraph) is

SPOILER ALERT - Navi, look away!

because his therapist (would have been "counselor" in those days)
asked him for an essay ("composition"?) about his life?

Ken Blake

2023-10-14 15:42:02 UTC

Permalink

On Fri, 13 Oct 2023 19:02:36 -0700 (PDT), arthurvv vart

1, yes. 2, no.

Post by arthurvv vart

Post by arthurvv vart
Are they idiomatic?

No.

In 1, the first "and" should be deleted.

2 should be "I just sort of sat and did not do anything."

Post by arthurvv vart

Post by arthurvv vart
Are they regional?

Not that I know of, but I'm far from an expert on all regional
varieties of English.