Degrees of sin

..

Where did you get that idea?

Post by occam
Why? Is this because the Hebrew language is deficient in its
terminology, or is it because translators (into English) are lazy?

Exodus 34:7 mentions 'avon va-pesha` v-chata'ah. KJV "iniquity
and transgression and sin".

There's also resha` (wickedness--the adjective is rasha`, meaning
wicked,
criminal) and ro` (evil--the adjective is ra`, meaning bad or evil).

(More scholarly transliterations are available.)

I don't know what distinctions there might be among these terms,
or among the terms in the Qur'an.

(Thanks to biblescan.com for help with Hebrew.)

--
Jerry Friedman

--

LionelEdwards

2024-11-06 15:12:33 UTC

...
Where did you get that idea?

Post by occam
Why? Is this because the Hebrew language is deficient in its
terminology, or is it because translators (into English) are lazy?

Exodus 34:7 mentions 'avon va-pesha` v-chata'ah. KJV "iniquity
and transgression and sin".
There's also resha` (wickedness--the adjective is rasha`, meaning
wicked,
criminal) and ro` (evil--the adjective is ra`, meaning bad or evil).
(More scholarly transliterations are available.)
I don't know what distinctions there might be among these terms,
or among the terms in the Qur'an.

Wikipedia has this analysis of the seven or more
Deadly Sins:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins

LionelEdwards

2024-11-06 15:42:36 UTC

Post by LionelEdwards
Wikipedia has this analysis of the seven or more
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins

Not for the fainthearted.

Man of the cloth Ernst Biberstein lived to the respectable
age of 87, despite being sentenced to death for unspeakable
crimes 40 years earlier, and seems to have had his sins
forgiven by the church:

occam

2024-11-06 15:52:41 UTC

Post by LionelEdwards

...
Where did you get that idea?

Post by occam
Why? Is this because the Hebrew language is deficient in its
terminology, or is it because translators (into English) are lazy?

Exodus 34:7 mentions 'avon va-pesha` v-chata'ah. KJV "iniquity
and transgression and sin".
There's also resha` (wickedness--the adjective is rasha`, meaning
wicked,
criminal) and ro` (evil--the adjective is ra`, meaning bad or evil).
(More scholarly transliterations are available.)
I don't know what distinctions there might be among these terms,
or among the terms in the Qur'an.

Wikipedia has this analysis of the seven or more
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins

Yes, they are instances of sin. They are not shades of meanings of sin.

LionelEdwards

2024-11-06 23:25:48 UTC

Post by LionelEdwards

...
Where did you get that idea?

Post by occam
Why? Is this because the Hebrew language is deficient in its
terminology, or is it because translators (into English) are lazy?

Exodus 34:7 mentions 'avon va-pesha` v-chata'ah. KJV "iniquity
and transgression and sin".
There's also resha` (wickedness--the adjective is rasha`, meaning
wicked,
criminal) and ro` (evil--the adjective is ra`, meaning bad or evil).
(More scholarly transliterations are available.)
I don't know what distinctions there might be among these terms,
or among the terms in the Qur'an.

Wikipedia has this analysis of the seven or more
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins

Yes, they are instances of sin. They are not shades of meanings of sin.

You mean if I eat 2 packets of biscuits, and somebody else
eats 4 packets, they are twice as sinful (gluttony) as me?

Suppose I covet my neighbour's ass (envy) but she's a pretty
young widow (lust)?

If God were serious about heaven he would have provided
us with a handy table by way of the scriptures.

occam

2024-11-07 11:02:49 UTC

Post by LionelEdwards

...
Where did you get that idea?

Post by occam
Why? Is this because the Hebrew language is deficient in its
terminology, or is it because translators (into English) are lazy?

Exodus 34:7 mentions 'avon va-pesha` v-chata'ah. KJV "iniquity
and transgression and sin".
There's also resha` (wickedness--the adjective is rasha`, meaning
wicked,
criminal) and ro` (evil--the adjective is ra`, meaning bad or evil).
(More scholarly transliterations are available.)
I don't know what distinctions there might be among these terms,
or among the terms in the Qur'an.

Wikipedia has this analysis of the seven or more
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins

Yes, they are instances of sin. They are not shades of meanings of
sin.

You mean if I eat 2 packets of biscuits, and somebody else
eats 4 packets, they are twice as sinful (gluttony) as me?

I wish there was an irrelevant YouTube video I could point you to, just
to shut you up. Your understanding of English is risible.

Peter Moylan

2024-11-06 23:25:32 UTC

Post by LionelEdwards
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins

The nuns who taught me in primary school distinguished between mortal
sins and venial sins. The lesson I took away from that is that there are
just two mortal sins: missing Mass on Sunday, and eating meat on Friday.
The ones that Moses had on his tablets must have been somewhere up there
too, but we didn't understand all of those. Anyway, it was sort of
understood that Jesus with his New World Order had cancelled all the
pre-Christian sins.

We were protected anyway, because they sold us indulgences called
scapulars, with a guaranteed reduction in sentence from our time in
Purgatory. (A damned nuisance to wear in the shower, though.)

--
Peter Moylan ***@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

occam

2024-11-06 16:27:33 UTC

..
Where did you get that idea?

Post by occam
Why? Is this because the Hebrew language is deficient in its
terminology, or is it because translators (into English) are lazy?

Exodus 34:7 mentions 'avon va-pesha` v-chata'ah. KJV "iniquity
and transgression and sin".

These are alternative near terms, but not clearly differentiated. So, is
an iniquity more or less than a sin? Is a 'transgression' a serious sin
or a minor sin? Etc.

Post by jerryfriedman
There's also resha` (wickedness--the adjective is rasha`, meaning
wicked,
criminal) and ro` (evil--the adjective is ra`, meaning bad or evil).
(More scholarly transliterations are available.)
I don't know what distinctions there might be among these terms,
or among the terms in the Qur'an.

The distinction between the terms in the Quran are discussed on the page
I linked to.

"The Quran describes these sins throughout the texts and demonstrates
that some sins are more punishable than others in the hereafter. A clear
distinction is made between major sins (al-Kabirah) and minor sins
(al-Sagha'ir) (Q4:31–32), indicating that if an individual stays away
from the major sins then they will be forgiven of the minor sins."

I don't want to be too reductionist about this, but it seems AI will one
day be able to calculate "sinfullness". It may even provide a
simulation of the outcome of the Great Judgement, based on an
individual's actions in this life. The 'training database' for this
algorithm would be Dante's writings of Inferno, Purgatorio and Paradiso,
amongst others.

Anyone care to ChatGPT the idea? <smile>

Sam Plusnet

2024-11-06 18:54:59 UTC

..
Where did you get that idea?

Post by occam
Why? Is this because the Hebrew language is deficient in its
terminology, or is it because translators (into English) are lazy?

Exodus 34:7 mentions 'avon va-pesha` v-chata'ah. KJV "iniquity
and transgression and sin".

These are alternative near terms, but not clearly differentiated.

If you mean they are sinonyms, you should have said so.

--
Sam Plusnet

occam

2024-11-06 19:22:39 UTC

Post by Sam Plusnet

..
Where did you get that idea?

Post by occam
Why? Is this because the Hebrew language is deficient in its
terminology, or is it because translators (into English) are lazy?

Exodus 34:7 mentions 'avon va-pesha` v-chata'ah. KJV "iniquity
and transgression and sin".

These are alternative near terms, but not clearly differentiated.

If you mean they are sinonyms, you should have said so.

No I did not mean synonyms (sic), I meant nearly equivalent words.

jerryfriedman

2024-11-07 01:51:31 UTC

..
Where did you get that idea?

Post by occam
Why? Is this because the Hebrew language is deficient in its
terminology, or is it because translators (into English) are lazy?

Exodus 34:7 mentions 'avon va-pesha` v-chata'ah. KJV "iniquity
and transgression and sin".

These are alternative near terms, but not clearly differentiated. So, is
an iniquity more or less than a sin? Is a 'transgression' a serious sin
or a minor sin? Etc.

OK, I see what you're getting at. A number of sins in
the Hebrew Bible are differentiated in gravity by the
punishment, from death to no punishment at all. Also
some are identified as abominations (to`evah), which
might be worse.

The Talmud probably does offer at least one explanation
of the difference between iniquity, transgression, and
sin, which may not be a difference in degree, but I'm
afraid I'm not interested.

..

Those aren't the terms you mentioned above.

--
Jerry Friedman

--

Hibou

2024-11-06 17:02:13 UTC

..
Where did you get that idea?

Post by occam
Why? Is this because the Hebrew language is deficient in its
terminology, or is it because translators (into English) are lazy?

Exodus 34:7 mentions 'avon va-pesha` v-chata'ah. KJV "iniquity
and transgression and sin".
There's also resha` (wickedness--the adjective is rasha`, meaning
wicked,
criminal) and ro` (evil--the adjective is ra`, meaning bad or evil).
(More scholarly transliterations are available.)
I don't know what distinctions there might be among these terms,
or among the terms in the Qur'an.
(Thanks to biblescan.com for help with Hebrew.)

If the purpose of religion is to exercise control over believers, then
it pays to keep things woolly. If one says to them, "Do this and you're
doomed, with no hope of redemption," then one has surrendered that
control. Better to keep hope alive, no matter what the sinner does.

Better yet - sell indulgences.

So if the Bible's translators did indeed simplify the scale of the
sinometer, perhaps they did it deliberately.

Anyway, the great thing is that where there is no religion, there is no
sin. I never sin, me.

Steve Hayes

2024-11-07 04:31:54 UTC