Online data collection - Newspeak ?

[occam]

Today, for the umpteenth time, the nytimes.com site is asking me to
consent to the use of my data for various marketing purposes.

On the menu:

- Use limited data to select advertising (Yes/No)
- Create profiles for personalised advertising (Yes/No)
- Use profiles to select personalised advertising (Yes/No)
- Measure advertising performance (Yes/No)
- Understand audiences through statistics or combination of data from
different sources (Yes/No)
- Develop and improve services (Yes/No)

This multiplicity of options is baffling. I personally do not see the
distinction between the first three 'purposes'.

As for the rest, I don't see what it has to do with me as an individual.
Measuring performance, understanding audiences and developing improved
services does NOT require my consent. All I'm trying to do is to Wordle.

My conclusion - confuse the user with a multiplicity of non-choices with
the use of English.

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Post by occam
My conclusion - confuse the user with a multiplicity of non-choices with
the use of English.

Cover their ass in case somebody complains.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Post by occam
Today, for the umpteenth time, the nytimes.com site is asking me to
consent to the use of my data for various marketing purposes.
- Use limited data to select advertising (Yes/No)
- Create profiles for personalised advertising (Yes/No)
- Use profiles to select personalised advertising (Yes/No)
- Measure advertising performance (Yes/No)
- Understand audiences through statistics or combination of data from
different sources (Yes/No)
- Develop and improve services (Yes/No)
This multiplicity of options is baffling. I personally do not see the
distinction between the first three 'purposes'.
As for the rest, I don't see what it has to do with me as an individual.
Measuring performance, understanding audiences and developing improved
services does NOT require my consent. All I'm trying to do is to Wordle.
My conclusion - confuse the user with a multiplicity of non-choices with
the use of English.

I don't think you live in Scotland, but if you do the Government offers
the following 24 possibilities for specifying your "gender":

Cisgender
Trans man
Trans woman
Non-Binary
Trans – not otherwise specified
Agender
Trans masculine
Trans feminine
Genderfluid
Genderqueer
Questioning
Intersex
Assigned female at birth – not specified
Assigned male at birth – not specified
Pangender
Bigender
Autigender
Androgynous
Gender non-conforming
Detransitioned
Neutral
Demigender – female
Demigender – male
Demigender – not otherwise specified
Note that "Normal male" is not one of the 24 possibilities. Normal male
and Normal female are presumably lumped together as "Cisgender", but
why not separate the two natural answers if you need 23 classes for the
others?

[Aidan Kehoe]

[...] I don't think you live in Scotland, but if you do the Government
Cisgender
Trans man
Trans woman
Non-Binary
Trans – not otherwise specified
Agender
Trans masculine
Trans feminine
Genderfluid
Genderqueer
Questioning
Intersex
Assigned female at birth – not specified
Assigned male at birth – not specified
Pangender
Bigender
Autigender
Androgynous
Gender non-conforming
Detransitioned
Neutral
Demigender – female
Demigender – male
Demigender – not otherwise specified
Note that "Normal male" is not one of the 24 possibilities. Normal male and
Normal female are presumably lumped together as "Cisgender", but why not
separate the two natural answers if you need 23 classes for the others?

I don’t see the usual UK option of “prefer not to say,” which surprises me.
That is usually my preferred answer for those questions, though since they have
the obligation to ascribe you a community for the Northern Ireland-specific
community background I do answer that.

[occam]

Post by Aidan Kehoe

[...] I don't think you live in Scotland, but if you do the Government
Cisgender
Trans man
Trans woman
Non-Binary
Trans – not otherwise specified
Agender
Trans masculine
Trans feminine
Genderfluid
Genderqueer
Questioning
Intersex
Assigned female at birth – not specified
Assigned male at birth – not specified
Pangender
Bigender
Autigender
Androgynous
Gender non-conforming
Detransitioned
Neutral
Demigender – female
Demigender – male
Demigender – not otherwise specified
Note that "Normal male" is not one of the 24 possibilities. Normal male and
Normal female are presumably lumped together as "Cisgender", but why not
separate the two natural answers if you need 23 classes for the others?

I don’t see the usual UK option of “prefer not to say,” which surprises me.
That is usually my preferred answer for those questions, though since they have
the obligation to ascribe you a community for the Northern Ireland-specific
community background I do answer that.

I prefer 'Other - Klingon'. (I admit I do not often get the opportunity
to express this preference. )

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

On Tue, 22 Oct 2024 10:36:15 +0200

Post by occam

Post by Aidan Kehoe

[...] I don't think you live in Scotland, but if you do the Government
Cisgender
Trans man
Trans woman
Non-Binary
Trans – not otherwise specified
Agender
Trans masculine
Trans feminine
Genderfluid
Genderqueer
Questioning
Intersex
Assigned female at birth – not specified
Assigned male at birth – not specified
Pangender
Bigender
Autigender
Androgynous
Gender non-conforming
Detransitioned
Neutral
Demigender – female
Demigender – male
Demigender – not otherwise specified
Note that "Normal male" is not one of the 24 possibilities. Normal male and
Normal female are presumably lumped together as "Cisgender", but why not
separate the two natural answers if you need 23 classes for the others?

I don’t see the usual UK option of “prefer not to say,” which surprises me.
That is usually my preferred answer for those questions, though since they have
the obligation to ascribe you a community for the Northern Ireland-specific
community background I do answer that.

I prefer 'Other - Klingon'. (I admit I do not often get the opportunity
to express this preference. )

But can you read Shakespeare?
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InTheOriginalKlingon

[Hibou]

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by occam
Today, for the umpteenth time, the nytimes.com site is asking me to
consent to the use of my data for various marketing purposes.
- Use limited data to select advertising (Yes/No)
- Create profiles for personalised advertising (Yes/No)
- Use profiles to select personalised advertising (Yes/No)
- Measure advertising performance (Yes/No)
- Understand audiences through statistics or combination of data from
different sources (Yes/No)
- Develop and improve services (Yes/No)
This multiplicity of options is baffling.  I personally do not see the
distinction between the first three 'purposes'.
As for the rest, I don't see what it has to do with me as an individual.
Measuring performance, understanding audiences and developing improved
services does NOT require my consent. All I'm trying to do is to Wordle.
My conclusion - confuse the user with a multiplicity of non-choices with
the use of English.

I don't think you live in Scotland, but if you do the Government offers
Cisgender
Trans man
Trans woman
Non-Binary
Trans – not otherwise specified
Agender
Trans masculine
Trans feminine
Genderfluid
Genderqueer
Questioning
Intersex
Assigned female at birth – not specified
Assigned male at birth – not specified
Pangender
Bigender
Autigender
Androgynous
Gender non-conforming
Detransitioned
Neutral
Demigender – female
Demigender – male
Demigender – not otherwise specified
Note that "Normal male" is not one of the 24 possibilities. Normal male
and Normal female are presumably lumped together as "Cisgender", but why
not separate the two natural answers if you need 23 classes for the others?

I think they'd balk at the word 'normal', which would imply that all the
others are abnormal. And there are some gaps, it seems to me. If
'non-binary', why not 'binary' - or indeed 'decimal'? And if
'genderfluid', why not 'gendersolid', if 'gender non-conforming', why
not 'gender conforming'? And so on. I'm disappointed to find our dear
government manifesting this kind of narrow-mindedness. Booooo!

And a question: do all these groups need separate loos?

[occam]

Post by Hibou

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by occam
Today, for the umpteenth time, the nytimes.com site is asking me to
consent to the use of my data for various marketing purposes.
- Use limited data to select advertising (Yes/No)
- Create profiles for personalised advertising (Yes/No)
- Use profiles to select personalised advertising (Yes/No)
- Measure advertising performance (Yes/No)
- Understand audiences through statistics or combination of data from
different sources (Yes/No)
- Develop and improve services (Yes/No)
This multiplicity of options is baffling.  I personally do not see the
distinction between the first three 'purposes'.
As for the rest, I don't see what it has to do with me as an individual.
Measuring performance, understanding audiences and developing improved
services does NOT require my consent. All I'm trying to do is to Wordle.
My conclusion - confuse the user with a multiplicity of non-choices with
the use of English.

I don't think you live in Scotland, but if you do the Government
Cisgender
Trans man
Trans woman
Non-Binary
Trans – not otherwise specified
Agender
Trans masculine
Trans feminine
Genderfluid
Genderqueer
Questioning
Intersex
Assigned female at birth – not specified
Assigned male at birth – not specified
Pangender
Bigender
Autigender
Androgynous
Gender non-conforming
Detransitioned
Neutral
Demigender – female
Demigender – male
Demigender – not otherwise specified
Note that "Normal male" is not one of the 24 possibilities. Normal
male and Normal female are presumably lumped together as "Cisgender",
but why not separate the two natural answers if you need 23 classes
for the others?

I think they'd balk at the word 'normal', which would imply that all the
others are abnormal. And there are some gaps, it seems to me. If 'non-
binary', why not 'binary' - or indeed 'decimal'? And if 'genderfluid',
why not 'gendersolid', if 'gender non-conforming', why not 'gender
conforming'? And so on. I'm disappointed to find our dear government
manifesting this kind of narrow-mindedness. Booooo!
And a question: do all these groups need separate loos?

Worse still - an on topic in AUE - do they all need separate pronouns?

[lar3ryca]

Post by occam

Post by Hibou

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by occam
Today, for the umpteenth time, the nytimes.com site is asking me to
consent to the use of my data for various marketing purposes.
- Use limited data to select advertising (Yes/No)
- Create profiles for personalised advertising (Yes/No)
- Use profiles to select personalised advertising (Yes/No)
- Measure advertising performance (Yes/No)
- Understand audiences through statistics or combination of data from
different sources (Yes/No)
- Develop and improve services (Yes/No)
This multiplicity of options is baffling.  I personally do not see the
distinction between the first three 'purposes'.
As for the rest, I don't see what it has to do with me as an individual.
Measuring performance, understanding audiences and developing improved
services does NOT require my consent. All I'm trying to do is to Wordle.
My conclusion - confuse the user with a multiplicity of non-choices with
the use of English.

I don't think you live in Scotland, but if you do the Government
Cisgender
Trans man
Trans woman
Non-Binary
Trans – not otherwise specified
Agender
Trans masculine
Trans feminine
Genderfluid
Genderqueer
Questioning
Intersex
Assigned female at birth – not specified
Assigned male at birth – not specified
Pangender
Bigender
Autigender
Androgynous
Gender non-conforming
Detransitioned
Neutral
Demigender – female
Demigender – male
Demigender – not otherwise specified
Note that "Normal male" is not one of the 24 possibilities. Normal
male and Normal female are presumably lumped together as "Cisgender",
but why not separate the two natural answers if you need 23 classes
for the others?

I think they'd balk at the word 'normal', which would imply that all the
others are abnormal. And there are some gaps, it seems to me. If 'non-
binary', why not 'binary' - or indeed 'decimal'? And if 'genderfluid',
why not 'gendersolid', if 'gender non-conforming', why not 'gender
conforming'? And so on. I'm disappointed to find our dear government
manifesting this kind of narrow-mindedness. Booooo!
And a question: do all these groups need separate loos?

Our premier (Saskatchewan Party, currently forming the Saskatchewan
government) has just announced that in the schools, biological males
will not be allowed to use the girls dressing rooms.

Since we are currently in election week, the opposition NDP (New
Democratic Party) has objected, saying that the premier is "punching
down on the most vulnerable segment of our society for political purposes."

Does nobody think of the biological females in the dressing room, and
the effect on them?

Post by occam
Worse still - an on topic in AUE - do they all need separate pronouns?

[Sam Plusnet]

Post by Hibou

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Note that "Normal male" is not one of the 24 possibilities. Normal
male and Normal female are presumably lumped together as "Cisgender",
but why not separate the two natural answers if you need 23 classes
for the others?

I think they'd balk at the word 'normal', which would imply that all the
others are abnormal. And there are some gaps, it seems to me. If 'non-
binary', why not 'binary' - or indeed 'decimal'? And if 'genderfluid',
why not 'gendersolid', if 'gender non-conforming', why not 'gender
conforming'? And so on. I'm disappointed to find our dear government
manifesting this kind of narrow-mindedness. Booooo!

Are you trying to upset the genderplasma community by ignoring them?

[Hibou]

Post by Sam Plusnet

Post by Hibou

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Note that "Normal male" is not one of the 24 possibilities. Normal
male and Normal female are presumably lumped together as "Cisgender",
but why not separate the two natural answers if you need 23 classes
for the others?

I think they'd balk at the word 'normal', which would imply that all
the others are abnormal. And there are some gaps, it seems to me. If
'non- binary', why not 'binary' - or indeed 'decimal'? And if
'genderfluid', why not 'gendersolid', if 'gender non-conforming', why
not 'gender conforming'? And so on. I'm disappointed to find our dear
government manifesting this kind of narrow-mindedness. Booooo!

Are you trying to upset the genderplasma community by ignoring them?

I'd thought of gendergaseous, but not genderplasma. I apologise to any
genderplasma people distressed by that omission.

Gendernebulous sounds better, I think.

I can't remember the Scottish Government asking me for this information
(but then we don't talk much), and in almost all contexts asking one's
mental gender would seem nosey and intrusive. Even biological sex is
often irrelevant - the main exception being, I suppose, relevant health
services.

[Aidan Kehoe]

[...] Even biological sex is often irrelevant - the main exception being, I
suppose, relevant health services.

The current year enthusiasm for taking this seriously is an actual problem in
medical care in the US (from my reading, and presumably in other jurisdictions
where it is taken seriously), in that pregnancy tests before radiation exposure
don’t get done where they should get done, and diagnoses that are specific to
one’s biological sex (e.g. prostate cancer, ovarian cancer) are more easily
missed.

[Steve Hayes]

On Wed, 23 Oct 2024 08:20:29 +0100, Hibou

Post by Hibou
I'd thought of gendergaseous, but not genderplasma. I apologise to any
genderplasma people distressed by that omission.
Gendernebulous sounds better, I think.
I can't remember the Scottish Government asking me for this information
(but then we don't talk much), and in almost all contexts asking one's
mental gender would seem nosey and intrusive. Even biological sex is
often irrelevant - the main exception being, I suppose, relevant health
services.

There are gynecologists and anthrpologists and paediatricians, but I
haven't yet come across an andracologist.

[J. J. Lodder]

Post by Hibou

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by occam
Today, for the umpteenth time, the nytimes.com site is asking me to
consent to the use of my data for various marketing purposes.
- Use limited data to select advertising (Yes/No)
- Create profiles for personalised advertising (Yes/No)
- Use profiles to select personalised advertising (Yes/No)
- Measure advertising performance (Yes/No)
- Understand audiences through statistics or combination of data from
different sources (Yes/No)
- Develop and improve services (Yes/No)
This multiplicity of options is baffling. I personally do not see the
distinction between the first three 'purposes'.
As for the rest, I don't see what it has to do with me as an individual.
Measuring performance, understanding audiences and developing improved
services does NOT require my consent. All I'm trying to do is to Wordle.
My conclusion - confuse the user with a multiplicity of non-choices with
the use of English.

I don't think you live in Scotland, but if you do the Government offers
Cisgender
Trans man
Trans woman
Non-Binary
Trans – not otherwise specified
Agender
Trans masculine
Trans feminine
Genderfluid
Genderqueer
Questioning
Intersex
Assigned female at birth – not specified
Assigned male at birth – not specified
Pangender
Bigender
Autigender
Androgynous
Gender non-conforming
Detransitioned
Neutral
Demigender – female
Demigender – male
Demigender – not otherwise specified
Note that "Normal male" is not one of the 24 possibilities. Normal male
and Normal female are presumably lumped together as "Cisgender", but why
not separate the two natural answers if you need 23 classes for the others?

I think they'd balk at the word 'normal', which would imply that all the
others are abnormal. And there are some gaps, it seems to me. If
'non-binary', why not 'binary' - or indeed 'decimal'? And if
'genderfluid', why not 'gendersolid', if 'gender non-conforming', why
not 'gender conforming'? And so on. I'm disappointed to find our dear
government manifesting this kind of narrow-mindedness. Booooo!

One could follow Einstein's solution:
When having to fill out his description form, on official immigration
into the (always racist) United States of America,
he had to fill in something in the catagory 'Race'.
He wrote 'Human'. They didn't stop him.

Post by Hibou
And a question: do all these groups need separate loos?

Of course not. The right question is 'prisons',

Jan

[Peter Moylan]

Post by J. J. Lodder
When having to fill out his description form, on official immigration
into the (always racist) United States of America,
he had to fill in something in the catagory 'Race'.
He wrote 'Human'. They didn't stop him.

The first time I hit a question "gender" instead of "sex", I wrote
something to the effect of "different in different languages". But that
was back in the days where someone thought that "sex" was getting too
many bawdy responses, and that "gender" could be used because it was a
synonym for "sex".

I recall an earlier example where the question was "sex (m/f)", to which
someone replied "I prefer to f, but sometimes I have to m".

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Post by Peter Moylan
I recall an earlier example where the question was "sex (m/f)", to which
someone replied "I prefer to f, but sometimes I have to m".

A well-known joke in Denmark is not about sex but about job. Our word
"stilling" can mean both "job" and "position", so the 'funny' answer is
"standing/sitting/lying".

[Peter Moylan]

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by Peter Moylan
I recall an earlier example where the question was "sex (m/f)", to
which someone replied "I prefer to f, but sometimes I have to m".

A well-known joke in Denmark is not about sex but about job. Our
word "stilling" can mean both "job" and "position", so the 'funny'
answer is "standing/sitting/lying".

Our politicians do that. First they stand for election. Then they sit in
the parliament. Not long afterwards, they start lying.

[occam]

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by Peter Moylan
I recall an earlier example where the question was "sex (m/f)", to
which someone replied "I prefer to f, but sometimes I have to m".

A well-known joke in Denmark is not about sex but about job. Our
word "stilling" can mean both "job" and "position", so the 'funny'
answer is "standing/sitting/lying".

Our politicians do that. First they stand for election. Then they sit in
the parliament. Not long afterwards, they start lying.

<smile>

[Anders D. Nygaard]

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by Peter Moylan
I recall an earlier example where the question was "sex (m/f)", to which
someone replied "I prefer to f, but sometimes I have to m".

A well-known joke in Denmark is not about sex but about job. Our word
"stilling" can mean both "job" and "position", so the 'funny' answer is
"standing/sitting/lying".

I'd have thought "missionary".

/Anders, Denmark

[Peter Moylan]

Post by Anders D. Nygaard

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by Peter Moylan
I recall an earlier example where the question was "sex (m/f)", to which
someone replied "I prefer to f, but sometimes I have to m".

A well-known joke in Denmark is not about sex but about job. Our word
"stilling" can mean both "job" and "position", so the 'funny' answer is
"standing/sitting/lying".

I'd have thought "missionary".

All summer long she touched me
And I knew her, I knew her
Face to face

[Steve Hayes]

On Fri, 25 Oct 2024 08:55:18 +0200, Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by Peter Moylan
I recall an earlier example where the question was "sex (m/f)", to which
someone replied "I prefer to f, but sometimes I have to m".

A well-known joke in Denmark is not about sex but about job. Our word
"stilling" can mean both "job" and "position", so the 'funny' answer is
"standing/sitting/lying".

And every American movie cop making an arrest says "assume the
position", like a Ph like, you know, D.

[Steve Hayes]

On Tue, 22 Oct 2024 09:50:55 +0200, Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by occam
Today, for the umpteenth time, the nytimes.com site is asking me to
consent to the use of my data for various marketing purposes.
- Use limited data to select advertising (Yes/No)
- Create profiles for personalised advertising (Yes/No)
- Use profiles to select personalised advertising (Yes/No)
- Measure advertising performance (Yes/No)
- Understand audiences through statistics or combination of data from
different sources (Yes/No)
- Develop and improve services (Yes/No)
This multiplicity of options is baffling. I personally do not see the
distinction between the first three 'purposes'.
As for the rest, I don't see what it has to do with me as an individual.
Measuring performance, understanding audiences and developing improved
services does NOT require my consent. All I'm trying to do is to Wordle.
My conclusion - confuse the user with a multiplicity of non-choices with
the use of English.

I don't think you live in Scotland, but if you do the Government offers
Cisgender
Trans man
Trans woman
Non-Binary
Trans – not otherwise specified
Agender
Trans masculine
Trans feminine
Genderfluid
Genderqueer
Questioning
Intersex
Assigned female at birth – not specified
Assigned male at birth – not specified
Pangender
Bigender
Autigender
Androgynous
Gender non-conforming
Detransitioned
Neutral
Demigender – female
Demigender – male
Demigender – not otherwise specified
Note that "Normal male" is not one of the 24 possibilities. Normal male
and Normal female are presumably lumped together as "Cisgender", but
why not separate the two natural answers if you need 23 classes for the
others?

Perhaps because male and female are sexes, not genders, and they
really do want to know your gender, as opposed to your sex.