Schnapps

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen
Someone in the Danish language group wondered about how to translate the
Danish word "snaps" and found from Google that it's "schnapps" (German
spelling) in English. Big surprise.
schnapps:eng_gb_2019,schnapps:eng_us_2019
It shows that the word is fairly common (four zeroes - not much pondian
difference), and the curve rises in 2000 and drops dramatically around
2020. I do not ask you to explain the rise and fall of the roma ...
sorry word, but I am a bit surprised that the word is so common. What is
your experience?

I drink gin (Gordon’s and tonic); when I was less settled in my habits I drank
schapps now and then, more so when I was living in Germany, less so when I
moved back to .ie in 2008. It’s known but not particularly popular in Ireland,
my guess would be the same is true of Britain.

Jägermeister, a particularly foul-tasting German liqueur, had an expposion of
popularity in the English-speaking world from about 2000; it has ebbed in my
consciousness but on checking the sales volumes it is still selling well. But I
don’t think English-speakers conceive of it as schnapps, rather as its own thing.

Schnapps was mentioned on an episode of the US TV show the Big Bang Theory
fifteen years ago or so, and it seemed to be a normal enough thing for
twenty-somethings to be drinking at that point.

--
‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
(C. Moore)

Tony Cooper

2024-12-02 17:02:14 UTC

I drink gin (Gordons and tonic); when I was less settled in my habits I drank
schapps now and then, more so when I was living in Germany, less so when I
moved back to .ie in 2008. Its known but not particularly popular in Ireland,
my guess would be the same is true of Britain.
Jägermeister, a particularly foul-tasting German liqueur, had an expposion of
popularity in the English-speaking world from about 2000; it has ebbed in my
consciousness but on checking the sales volumes it is still selling well. But I
dont think English-speakers conceive of it as schnapps, rather as its own thing.
Schnapps was mentioned on an episode of the US TV show the Big Bang Theory
fifteen years ago or so, and it seemed to be a normal enough thing for
twenty-somethings to be drinking at that point.

When I was in my late teens, the popular drink was Peppermint
Schnapps. A half-pint bottle of Peppermint Schnapps taken to a
football game in those cold Indiana winters was the approved body
warmer.

J. J. Lodder

2024-12-03 21:07:42 UTC

I drink gin (Gordon's and tonic); when I was less settled in my habits I drank
schapps now and then, more so when I was living in Germany, less so when I
moved back to .ie in 2008. It's known but not particularly popular in Ireland,
my guess would be the same is true of Britain.
Jägermeister, a particularly foul-tasting German liqueur, [...]

Then you don't drink it 'Eiskalt' enough,

Jan

Aidan Kehoe

2024-12-04 06:06:23 UTC

[...] Jägermeister, a particularly foul-tasting German liqueur, [...]

Then you don't drink it 'Eiskalt' enough,

I don’t drink it at all, and don’t plan to re-start, problem solved!

--
‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
(C. Moore)

occam

2024-12-04 13:31:45 UTC

<snap>

Jägermeister, a particularly foul-tasting German liqueur, [...]

Then you don't drink it 'Eiskalt' enough,

That's like saying 'You don't appreciate Heavy Metal music because
you're not stoned enough.' Not much of a solution.

I agree with Aidan's assessment ('foul-tasting German liquor').

Bertel Lund Hansen

2024-12-04 17:04:11 UTC

Jägermeister, a particularly foul-tasting German liqueur, [...]

Then you don't drink it 'Eiskalt' enough,

That's like saying 'You don't appreciate Heavy Metal music because
you're not stoned enough.' Not much of a solution.

I agree. The reason that Danish schnapps always is served at freezing
temperatures, is that the taste is foul at room temperature, except for
a few special ones and of course homemade ones that may have a fine
taste - if you like alcoholic beverages.

Can temperatures freeze?

--
Bertel
Kolt, Denmark

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2024-12-04 17:47:49 UTC

Post by occam
<snap>

Jägermeister, a particularly foul-tasting German liqueur, [...]

Then you don't drink it 'Eiskalt' enough,

That's like saying 'You don't appreciate Heavy Metal music because
you're not stoned enough.' Not much of a solution.
I agree with Aidan's assessment ('foul-tasting German liquor').

Have anyone tried Maotai? It can't get much fouler-tasting than that.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

Aidan Kehoe

2024-12-05 06:59:58 UTC

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Have anyone tried Maotai? It can't get much fouler-tasting than that.

I’ll keep it in mind, I haven’t ever seen it for sale.

Our local Chinese restaurant is actually excellent, but I’m pretty sure they’re
overseas (Malaysian) Chinese and may not have much tradition of it.

--
‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
(C. Moore)

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2024-12-05 08:18:01 UTC

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Have anyone tried Maotai? It can't get much fouler-tasting than that.

I’ll keep it in mind, I haven’t ever seen it for sale.
Our local Chinese restaurant is actually excellent, but I’m pretty sure they’re
overseas (Malaysian) Chinese and may not have much tradition of it.

Our local Chinese restaurant is Vietnamese. I think most of those in
Marseilles are. There is a genuine Chinese restaurant in the city
centre, and we went there about 30 years ago with a very distinguished
biochemist couple from Peking. They seemed to find it very
satisfactory. In retrospect it seems a bit odd to take Chinese visitors
to a Chinese restaurant. I don't remember why we did that; maybe they
specifically asked. It would seem more natural to take them somewhere
they could experience bouillabaisse.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

lar3ryca

2024-12-05 05:31:38 UTC

Post by occam
<snap>

Jägermeister, a particularly foul-tasting German liqueur, [...]

Then you don't drink it 'Eiskalt' enough,

That's like saying 'You don't appreciate Heavy Metal music because
you're not stoned enough.' Not much of a solution.
I agree with Aidan's assessment ('foul-tasting German liquor').

While I am not fond of Jägermeister, I wouldn't go as far as calling it
foul-tasting.

I used to like Ratzeputz when I lived in Germany.

Strangely enough, I also like Retsina.

--
I tried donating blood today.
Never again.
So many unnecessary questions...
Whose blood is it? Where did you get it? Why is it in a bucket?

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2024-12-05 08:05:32 UTC

Post by lar3ryca

Post by occam
<snap>

Jägermeister, a particularly foul-tasting German liqueur, [...]

Then you don't drink it 'Eiskalt' enough,

That's like saying 'You don't appreciate Heavy Metal music because
you're not stoned enough.' Not much of a solution.
I agree with Aidan's assessment ('foul-tasting German liquor').

While I am not fond of Jägermeister, I wouldn't go as far as calling it
foul-tasting.
I used to like Ratzeputz when I lived in Germany.
Strangely enough, I also like Retsina.

I haven't tasted retsina since I was in Greece in about 1964, but I
liked it then.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

J. J. Lodder

2024-12-05 10:57:04 UTC

Post by lar3ryca

Post by occam
<snap>

Jägermeister, a particularly foul-tasting German liqueur, [...]

Then you don't drink it 'Eiskalt' enough,

That's like saying 'You don't appreciate Heavy Metal music because
you're not stoned enough.' Not much of a solution.
I agree with Aidan's assessment ('foul-tasting German liquor').

While I am not fond of Jägermeister, I wouldn't go as far as calling it
foul-tasting.
I used to like Ratzeputz when I lived in Germany.
Strangely enough, I also like Retsina.

I haven't tasted retsina since I was in Greece in about 1964, but I
liked it then.

Certainly, but not the first sip of it,

Jan

occam

2024-12-05 09:09:51 UTC

Post by lar3ryca

Post by occam
<snap>

Jägermeister, a particularly foul-tasting German liqueur, [...]

Then you don't drink it 'Eiskalt' enough,

That's like saying 'You don't appreciate Heavy Metal music because
you're not stoned enough.' Not much of a solution.
I agree with Aidan's assessment ('foul-tasting German liquor').

While I am not fond of Jägermeister, I wouldn't go as far as calling it
foul-tasting.
I used to like Ratzeputz when I lived in Germany.
Strangely enough, I also like Retsina.

Ah, Retsina. The 'Domestos'[1] of internal consumption!

As a young person, I used to like a lot of rough alcoholic drinks, for
their 'local colour'. In Cyprus you could get a home-brewed drink
called 'Zivania'. It was - under British rule - legal to brew at home,
but illegal to sell to others. I blame all my current aberrant behaviour
on Zivania.

[1] https://www.unilever.com/brands/home-care/domestos/

Steve Hayes

2024-12-04 02:05:39 UTC

Post by Aidan Kehoe
Jägermeister, a particularly foul-tasting German liqueur, had an expposion of
popularity in the English-speaking world from about 2000; it has ebbed in my
consciousness but on checking the sales volumes it is still selling well. But I
don’t think English-speakers conceive of it as schnapps, rather as its own thing.

In Namibia often drunk as a "Kleine-Kleine" -- with a glass of beer
held between the thumb and index finger, and a liqueur glass of
Jägermeister held between the next two fingers, so that they mingle as
you drink them, a bit like a carburettor.

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

Aidan Kehoe

2024-12-04 06:11:12 UTC

“A bit like a carburettor,” you have a turn of phrase to make a marketing type
wince.

--
‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
(C. Moore)

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2024-12-04 09:49:17 UTC

Post by Aidan Kehoe
Jägermeister, a particularly foul-tasting German liqueur, had an

expposion of

Post by Aidan Kehoe
popularity in the English-speaking world from about 2000; it has

ebbed in my

Post by Aidan Kehoe
consciousness but on checking the sales volumes it is still selling

well. But I

Post by Aidan Kehoe
don’t think English-speakers conceive of it as schnapps, rather as

its own thing.

Post by Steve Hayes
In Namibia often drunk as a "Kleine-Kleine" -- with a glass of beer
held between the thumb and index finger, and a liqueur glass of
Jägermeister held between the next two fingers, so that they mingle as
you drink them, a bit like a carburettor.

“A bit like a carburettor,” you have a turn of phrase to make a marketing type
wince.

I'm not a marketing type, but it certainly made me wince.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2024-12-04 17:42:47 UTC

Post by Aidan Kehoe
Jägermeister, a particularly foul-tasting German liqueur,

Today I was looking in the supermarket to see if I could find pear
brandy. I didn't find any, but I came across a bottle of Jägermeister,
the first time I've ever seen it. Mindful of your comment I didn't buy
any.

Post by Aidan Kehoe
had an

expposion of

Post by Aidan Kehoe
popularity in the English-speaking world from about 2000; it has

ebbed in my

Post by Aidan Kehoe
consciousness but on checking the sales volumes it is still selling

well. But I

Post by Aidan Kehoe
don’t think English-speakers conceive of it as schnapps, rather as

its own thing.

“A bit like a carburettor,” you have a turn of phrase to make a marketing type
wince.

I'm not a marketing type, but it certainly made me wince.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

Aidan Kehoe

2024-12-05 06:57:10 UTC

Post by Aidan Kehoe
Jägermeister, a particularly foul-tasting German liqueur,

Today I was looking in the supermarket to see if I could find pear brandy. I
didn't find any, but I came across a bottle of Jägermeister, the first time
I've ever seen it. Mindful of your comment I didn't buy any.

It’s a drink of one’s late teens or twenties, with the associated hunger for
experiences, even bad ones.

--
‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
(C. Moore)

Joerg Walther

2024-12-05 15:08:15 UTC

Today I was looking in the supermarket to see if I could find pear brandy. I
didn't find any, but I came across a bottle of Jägermeister, the first time
I've ever seen it. Mindful of your comment I didn't buy any.

It’s a drink of one’s late teens or twenties, with the associated hunger for
experiences, even bad ones.

Exactly. As a young man I once got very drunk on Jägermeister (in a
group celebrating whatever until 4 in the morning) and consequently was
very sick for the next two days. I have never touched it again. :)

-jw-

--
And now for something completely different...

HVS

2024-12-05 15:24:02 UTC

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Today I was looking in the supermarket to see if I could find
pear brandy. I didn't find any, but I came across a bottle of
JÃ€germeister, the first time I've ever seen it. Mindful of your
comment I didn't buy any.

Itâs a drink of oneâs late teens or twenties, with the
associated hunger for experiences, even bad ones.

Exactly. As a young man I once got very drunk on JÃ€germeister (in
a group celebrating whatever until 4 in the morning) and
consequently was very sick for the next two days. I have never
touched it again. :)

That happened to me 50 years ago (when I was a graduate student),
although in my case the offending spirit was ouzo.

I quite liked licorice until then, but that experience put me off it
for life...

--
Cheers, Harvey

lar3ryca

2024-12-05 23:08:00 UTC

Post by Aidan Kehoe
Jägermeister, a particularly foul-tasting German liqueur,

Today I was looking in the supermarket to see if I could find pear brandy. I
didn't find any, but I came across a bottle of Jägermeister, the first time
I've ever seen it. Mindful of your comment I didn't buy any.

It’s a drink of one’s late teens or twenties, with the associated hunger for
experiences, even bad ones.

For us, us was 'Lemon Gin'.

--
One of the "A"s in "Aaron" is silent, but we will never know which one.

occam

2024-12-06 16:11:19 UTC

Post by Aidan Kehoe
Jägermeister, a particularly foul-tasting German liqueur,

Next time you are feeling more adventurous, look for_Tokaji Aszú_, a
Hungarian 'must'. It is a dessert wine (not a brandy) reputedly
cherished by King Louis XIV, Queen Victoria, Peter the Great, Goethe and
Beethoven and others. There is a 2008 film - with Tokaji as a central
piece - called 'Dean Spanley'.

<https://www.decanter.com/wine-news/tokaji-has-starring-role-in-dean-spanley-74434/>

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2024-12-06 18:15:17 UTC

Post by Aidan Kehoe
Jägermeister, a particularly foul-tasting German liqueur,

Next time you are feeling more adventurous, look for_Tokaji Aszú_, a
Hungarian 'must'.

I've had it in Hungary. We bought a bottle here 30 years ago but I
don't think we ever drank it. Too sweet for me.

Incidentally (and because this is alt.usage.english) in English it is
normally called Tokay.

Post by occam
It is a dessert wine (not a brandy) reputedly
cherished by King Louis XIV, Queen Victoria, Peter the Great, Goethe and
Beethoven and others. There is a 2008 film - with Tokaji as a central
piece - called 'Dean Spanley'.
<https://www.decanter.com/wine-news/tokaji-has-starring-role-in-dean-spanley-74434/>

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

occam

2024-12-07 10:58:00 UTC

On Mon, 02 Dec 2024 16:07:09 +0000, Aidan Kehoe

Post by Aidan Kehoe
Jägermeister, a particularly foul-tasting German liqueur,

Next time you are feeling more adventurous, look for_Tokaji Aszú_, a
Hungarian 'must'.

I've had it in Hungary. We bought a bottle here 30 years ago but I don't
think we ever drank it. Too sweet for me.
Incidentally (and because this is alt.usage.english) in English it is
normally called Tokay.

The subtitler of the film seems to agree with you. In rewatching the
film - a very English film, starring Peter O'Toole - the following line
struck me as amusing: "Thursday? Very handy Thursday. It keeps
Wednesday and Friday from colliding."

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2024-12-07 11:13:00 UTC

On Mon, 02 Dec 2024 16:07:09 +0000, Aidan Kehoe

Post by Aidan Kehoe
Jägermeister, a particularly foul-tasting German liqueur,

Next time you are feeling more adventurous, look for_Tokaji Aszú_, a
Hungarian 'must'.

I've had it in Hungary. We bought a bottle here 30 years ago but I don't
think we ever drank it. Too sweet for me.
Incidentally (and because this is alt.usage.english) in English it is
normally called Tokay.

The subtitler of the film seems to agree with you.

If a subtitler agrees with me, who could disagree?

Post by occam
In rewatching the
film - a very English film, starring Peter O'Toole - the following line
struck me as amusing: "Thursday? Very handy Thursday. It keeps
Wednesday and Friday from colliding."

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

Aidan Kehoe

2024-12-07 15:01:45 UTC

[...] Next time you are feeling more adventurous, look for_Tokaji Aszú_,
a Hungarian 'must'.

I've had it in Hungary. We bought a bottle here 30 years ago but I don't
think we ever drank it. Too sweet for me.
Incidentally (and because this is alt.usage.english) in English it is
normally called Tokay.

The subtitler of the film [Dean Spanley] seems to agree with you.

If a subtitler agrees with me, who could disagree?

For me it is something that comes up sufficiently rarely in English that I
don’t see much value to having a separate English word, and the anglicisation
should go the way of Leghorn and Brunswick.

Thanks for the pointer to the film, it looks like something our household would
enjoy.

--
‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
(C. Moore)

Paul Wolff

2024-12-07 20:14:42 UTC

[...] Next time you are feeling more adventurous, look
for_Tokaji Aszú_,
a Hungarian 'must'.

I've had it in Hungary. We bought a bottle here 30 years ago but I don't
think we ever drank it. Too sweet for me.
Incidentally (and because this is alt.usage.english) in English it is
normally called Tokay.

The subtitler of the film [Dean Spanley] seems to agree with you.

If a subtitler agrees with me, who could disagree?

For me it is something that comes up sufficiently rarely in English that I
don’t see much value to having a separate English word, and the anglicisation
should go the way of Leghorn and Brunswick.

Whatever would we call those chickens? And Brunswick Square in
Bloomsbury? (Or should that be Blemontbourg?)

I had an uncle from Kleve. Yet we English still talk of (scarcely ever
off our lips, m'Lud) Anne of Cleves. How disrespectful!

--
Paul W

Peter Moylan

2024-12-07 22:22:40 UTC

Post by Aidan Kehoe
For me it is something that comes up sufficiently rarely in English that I
don’t see much value to having a separate English word, and the anglicisation
should go the way of Leghorn and Brunswick.

It's too late for Brunswick. There are Brunswicks all over the
English-speaking world.

--
Peter Moylan ***@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2024-12-08 09:14:10 UTC

What about Dublin? Should we get used to calling it Baile Átha Cliath?

That nice Mr Erdoğan says that the proper name of his country in
English is Türkiye: should we bow to his wishes?

Post by Peter Moylan
It's too late for Brunswick. There are Brunswicks all over the
English-speaking world.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

Aidan Kehoe

2024-12-08 09:36:14 UTC

Post by Aidan Kehoe
For me it is something that comes up sufficiently rarely in English that
I don’t see much value to having a separate English word, and the
anglicisation should go the way of Leghorn and Brunswick.

What about Dublin? Should we get used to calling it Baile Átha Cliath?

Is Dublin a word that comes up rarely in English?

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
That nice Mr Erdoğan says that the proper name of his country in English is
Türkiye: should we bow to his wishes?

I think the country is sufficiently often up for discussion in English that
it’s reasonable to continue to use the English word. And it’s also reasonable,
out of respect for the wishes of the democratically-elected head of a NATO
member, to switch. We switched to Myanmar quickly enough, on the wishes of
junta that has run its country very badly for decades.

Post by Peter Moylan
It's too late for Brunswick. There are Brunswicks all over the
English-speaking world.

--
‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
(C. Moore)

Aidan Kehoe

2024-12-08 09:37:22 UTC

Post by Aidan Kehoe
For me it is something that comes up sufficiently rarely in English that I
don’t see much value to having a separate English word, and the
anglicisation should go the way of Leghorn and Brunswick.

It's too late for Brunswick. There are Brunswicks all over the
English-speaking world.

Yes, but if you’re talking about the German city, what word to you use? I think
it is clear enough that was my point.

--
‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
(C. Moore)

Sam Plusnet

2024-12-04 22:56:02 UTC

“A bit like a carburettor,” you have a turn of phrase to make a marketing type
wince.

I'm sure that marketing people are far more sinning than sinned against.
(One should be Leary of them.)

--
Sam Plusnet

Snidely

2024-12-04 23:24:20 UTC

Post by Aidan Kehoe
Jägermeister, a particularly foul-tasting German liqueur, had an

expposion of

Post by Aidan Kehoe
popularity in the English-speaking world from about 2000; it has ebbed

in my

Post by Aidan Kehoe
consciousness but on checking the sales volumes it is still selling

well. But I

Post by Aidan Kehoe
don’t think English-speakers conceive of it as schnapps, rather as its

own thing.

“A bit like a carburettor,” you have a turn of phrase to make a marketing type
wince.

I'm sure that marketing people are far more sinning than sinned against.
(One should be Leary of them.)

Carbs mix fuel and /air/. Mixing two fuels is a different function.
Not sure of a name for it.

/dps

--
"That's a good sort of hectic, innit?"

" Very much so, and I'd recommend the haggis wontons."
-njm

Steve Hayes

2024-12-05 00:49:05 UTC

Post by Aidan Kehoe
Jägermeister, a particularly foul-tasting German liqueur, had an

expposion of

Post by Aidan Kehoe
popularity in the English-speaking world from about 2000; it has ebbed

in my

Post by Aidan Kehoe
consciousness but on checking the sales volumes it is still selling

well. But I

Post by Aidan Kehoe
don’t think English-speakers conceive of it as schnapps, rather as its

own thing.

“A bit like a carburettor,” you have a turn of phrase to make a marketing type
wince.

I'm sure that marketing people are far more sinning than sinned against.
(One should be Leary of them.)

Carbs mix fuel and /air/. Mixing two fuels is a different function.
Not sure of a name for it.

The simile relates to mixing two things immediately before
using/consuming them. In this case the Jägermeister/Jägerfeuer runs
down the consumer's nose and into the larger glass.

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

jerryfriedman

2024-12-05 15:31:45 UTC

Post by Steve Hayes
you drink them, a bit like a carburettor.

“A bit like a carburettor,” you have a turn of phrase to make a
marketing type wince.

I'm sure that marketing people are far more sinning than sinned against.
(One should be Leary of them.)

Carbs mix fuel and /air/. Mixing two fuels is a different function.
Not sure of a name for it.

The simile relates to mixing two things immediately before
using/consuming them. In this case the Jägermeister/Jägerfeuer runs
down the consumer's nose and into the larger glass.

What?

People do that for fun?

--
Jerry Friedman

--

J. J. Lodder

2024-12-05 10:57:05 UTC

Post by Aidan Kehoe
Jägermeister, a particularly foul-tasting German liqueur, had an

expposion of

Post by Aidan Kehoe
popularity in the English-speaking world from about 2000; it has ebbed

in my

Post by Aidan Kehoe
consciousness but on checking the sales volumes it is still selling

well. But I

Post by Aidan Kehoe
don't think English-speakers conceive of it as schnapps, rather as its

own thing.

"A bit like a carburettor," you have a turn of phrase to make a marketing
type
wince.

I'm sure that marketing people are far more sinning than sinned against.
(One should be Leary of them.)

Carbs mix fuel and /air/. Mixing two fuels is a different function.
Not sure of a name for it.

Not 'blending'?

Jan

Snidely

2024-12-05 13:04:18 UTC

Post by Aidan Kehoe
Jägermeister, a particularly foul-tasting German liqueur, had an

expposion of

Post by Aidan Kehoe
popularity in the English-speaking world from about 2000; it has

ebbed in my

Post by Aidan Kehoe
consciousness but on checking the sales volumes it is still selling

well. But I

Post by Aidan Kehoe
don't think English-speakers conceive of it as schnapps, rather as

its own thing.

"A bit like a carburettor," you have a turn of phrase to make a marketing
type
wince.

I'm sure that marketing people are far more sinning than sinned against.
(One should be Leary of them.)

Carbs mix fuel and /air/. Mixing two fuels is a different function.
Not sure of a name for it.

Not 'blending'?
Jan

That seems like a reasonable choice.

-d

--
Courage is knowing it might hurt, and doing it anyway.
Stupidity is the same.
And that's why life is hard.
-- the World Wide Web

Sam Plusnet

2024-12-05 21:11:45 UTC

> On Mon, 02 Dec 2024 16:07:09 +0000, Aidan Kehoe
>
> >Jägermeister, a particularly foul-tasting German liqueur, had an
expposion of
> >popularity in the English-speaking world from about 2000; it has
ebbed in my
> >consciousness but on checking the sales volumes it is still
selling well. But I
> >don’t think English-speakers conceive of it as schnapps, rather
as its own thing.
>
> In Namibia often drunk as a "Kleine-Kleine" -- with a glass of beer
> held between the thumb and index finger, and a liqueur glass of
> Jägermeister held between the next two fingers, so that they
mingle as
> you drink them, a bit like a carburettor.
“A bit like a carburettor,” you have a turn of phrase to make a marketing type
wince.

I'm sure that marketing people are far more sinning than sinned against.
(One should be Leary of them.)

Carbs mix fuel and /air/. Mixing two fuels is a different function. Not
sure of a name for it.

Bit of an artificial distinction, I think.
Both the fuel and air are necessary to achieve the required effect of
locomotion, just like this way of drinking is...

I'll get back to you on that.

--
Sam Plusnet

jerryfriedman

2024-12-02 16:32:20 UTC

I've mostly heard it in "peppermint schnapps", a cheap
way to get drunk quickly. However, a Google ngram search
in AmE finds "peach schnapps" more common than "peppermint
schnapps", and "of schnapps" the most common.

https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=*+schnapps&year_start=1800&year_end=2022&corpus=en-US&smoothing=3&case_insensitive=false

I'm pretty sure American peach schnapps is alcohol and
water with peach flavoring, not peach brandy. Wikipedia
says American schnapps is usually "heavily sweetened".

In the context of a German-speaking country I'd expect
it to mean whatever it means there--mostly dry
brandy or liqueur, according to Wikip.

--
Jerry Friedman

--

Mike Spencer

2024-12-03 23:13:43 UTC

Post by jerryfriedman
I'm pretty sure American peach schnapps is alcohol and
water with peach flavoring, not peach brandy. Wikipedia
says American schnapps is usually "heavily sweetened".
In the context of a German-speaking country I'd expect
it to mean whatever it means there--mostly dry
brandy or liqueur, according to Wikip.

I have a bottle of what I take to be pear schnapps. Sent to me by a
fellow Kunstschmied in Bavaria. He raises the pears in a small orchard,
presses them and ferments the juice, than pays a entity that is (AIUI)
licensed to do so to distill it.

Not even slightly sweet, terrifically potent. I can read a little
German but not German script so I don't know what he's written by hand
(in gold ink!) on the bottle.

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2024-12-04 09:48:03 UTC

I have a bottle of what I take to be pear schnapps.
Sent to me by a
fellow Kunstschmied in Bavaria. He raises the pears in a small orchard,
presses them and ferments the juice, than pays a entity that is (AIUI)
licensed to do so to distill it.
Not even slightly sweet, terrifically potent. I can read a little
German but not German script so I don't know what he's written by hand
(in gold ink!) on the bottle.

To my mind the best spirit that exists, called Vilmos pálinka in
Hungary. Not easy to find in France, however.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

J. J. Lodder

2024-12-04 11:40:05 UTC

I have a bottle of what I take to be pear schnapps.
Sent to me by a
fellow Kunstschmied in Bavaria. He raises the pears in a small orchard,
presses them and ferments the juice, than pays a entity that is (AIUI)
licensed to do so to distill it.
Not even slightly sweet, terrifically potent. I can read a little
German but not German script so I don't know what he's written by hand
(in gold ink!) on the bottle.

To my mind the best spirit that exists, called Vilmos pálinka in
Hungary.

The generic term is palinka/palinca.
Preceding it is the name of some fruit, pear in this case.

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Not easy to find in France, however.

You have native Poire Williams instead,
which can also be quite good,
with or without a whole pear in the bottle.
(the French call it generically 'un alcool' or un 'eau-de-vie')

I have no idea about how it compares with the Hungarian stuff.
Is it really that superior?
I also have no idea of why the French got stuck
with an English kind of pear rather than some native kind,

Jan

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2024-12-04 17:39:12 UTC

I have a bottle of what I take to be pear schnapps.
Sent to me by a
fellow Kunstschmied in Bavaria. He raises the pears in a small orchard,
presses them and ferments the juice, than pays a entity that is (AIUI)
licensed to do so to distill it.
Not even slightly sweet, terrifically potent. I can read a little
German but not German script so I don't know what he's written by hand
(in gold ink!) on the bottle.

To my mind the best spirit that exists, called Vilmos pálinka in
Hungary.

The generic term is palinka/palinca.
Preceding it is the name of some fruit, pear in this case.

And if no fruit is mentioned it is plum brandy.

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Not easy to find in France, however.

You have native Poire Williams instead,

"Vilmos" is a Hungarianized spelling of Williams.

Post by J. J. Lodder
which can also be quite good,
with or without a whole pear in the bottle.
(the French call it generically 'un alcool' or un 'eau-de-vie')
I have no idea about how it compares with the Hungarian stuff.
Is it really that superior?

I've drunk both, but too long apart to make a meaningful comparison.

Post by J. J. Lodder
I also have no idea of why the French got stuck
with an English kind of pear rather than some native kind,

Because the Williams is the pear with the best taste. Its major problem
is that if you try to eat it a day too soon it is too hard; if you try
to eat it a day too late it s mushy; you have to eat it when it's just
right. Other pears are more forgiving.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

J. J. Lodder

2024-12-04 20:17:26 UTC

I have a bottle of what I take to be pear schnapps.
Sent to me by a
fellow Kunstschmied in Bavaria. He raises the pears in a small orchard,
presses them and ferments the juice, than pays a entity that is (AIUI)
licensed to do so to distill it.
Not even slightly sweet, terrifically potent. I can read a little
German but not German script so I don't know what he's written by hand
(in gold ink!) on the bottle.

To my mind the best spirit that exists, called Vilmos pálinka in
Hungary.

The generic term is palinka/palinca.
Preceding it is the name of some fruit, pear in this case.

And if no fruit is mentioned it is plum brandy.

Yes, also known as Slivovitz for example,
and very popular all over Eastern Europe.
Some varieties are quite strong.

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Not easy to find in France, however.

You have native Poire Williams instead,

"Vilmos" is a Hungarianized spelling of Williams.

Ah, of course, I should have guessed.
I see now that apart from the peculiarities of Hungarian
it is also known as 'Viljamovka' in more typical eastern countries.

I've drunk both, but too long apart to make a meaningful comparison.

OK, so I'll take your 'the best there is' with a grain of ...
(well not salt)
I'll make do with 'Poire Williams' instead,
or one of the many other French 'alcools'.

Post by J. J. Lodder
I also have no idea of why the French got stuck
with an English kind of pear rather than some native kind,

All those cultivars are way too confusing to keep track of,

Jan
(guess they'll use whatever they have, and call it 'Williams')

Garrett Wollman

2024-12-04 20:49:36 UTC

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Because the Williams is the pear with the best taste. Its major problem
is that if you try to eat it a day too soon it is too hard; if you try
to eat it a day too late it s mushy; you have to eat it when it's just
right. Other pears are more forgiving.

Known as "Bartlett" in North America, and the prototype of "pear".

We also have Anjou, Bosc, and Seckel as common market varieties.
Asian pears (which are a different species) also appear.

-GAWollman

--
Garrett A. Wollman | "Act to avoid constraining the future; if you can,
***@bimajority.org| act to remove constraint from the future. This is
Opinions not shared by| a thing you can do, are able to do, to do together."
my employers. | - Graydon Saunders, _A Succession of Bad Days_ (2015)

Brian

2024-12-04 22:05:26 UTC

Every dog has its day, and every pear has its hour.

--brian

--
Wellington
New Zealand

occam

2024-12-05 09:23:25 UTC

Post by Brian

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Because the Williams is the pear with the best taste. Its major
problem is that if you try to eat it a day too soon it is too hard; if
you try to eat it a day too late it s mushy; you have to eat it when
it's just right. Other pears are more forgiving.

Every dog has its day, and every pear has its hour.

<smile> I've never heard that one before. It's an unlikely pair.

J. J. Lodder

2024-12-05 10:57:05 UTC

Post by Brian

Every dog has its day, and every pear has its hour.

Certainly, but some pears have more hours than others.
I happen to know two extreme kinds from direct experience:
The first rots already on the tree, before falling,
and goes mushy almost immediately if picked just in time.
The second is quite hard when picked or fallen,
and suitable for cooking only. (which is fine)
The owner of the tree tells me that in the olden days
the surplus pears were hung in the (of curse unheated) attics,
on clothes lines. (they will rot on contact points)
They were edible, but a bit mushy, in midwinter.

Someone who knows about those kind of things told me
that edible apples and pears were still unknown in the Middle Ages.
Their apples and pears were suitable for cooking only,

Jan

lar3ryca

2024-12-05 23:11:07 UTC

Post by Brian

Every dog has its day, and every pear has its hour.

Certainly, but some pears have more hours than others.
The first rots already on the tree, before falling,
and goes mushy almost immediately if picked just in time.
The second is quite hard when picked or fallen,
and suitable for cooking only. (which is fine)
The owner of the tree tells me that in the olden days
the surplus pears were hung in the (of curse unheated) attics,
on clothes lines. (they will rot on contact points)
They were edible, but a bit mushy, in midwinter.
Someone who knows about those kind of things told me
that edible apples and pears were still unknown in the Middle Ages.
Their apples and pears were suitable for cooking only,

If you were a Brit, I would ask where you got edible stairs.

--
The world has become so serious that humor is a risky profession.
~ Bernardo Erlich

jerryfriedman

2024-12-05 14:35:35 UTC

Post by J. J. Lodder
I also have no idea of why the French got stuck
with an English kind of pear rather than some native kind,

If Bartlett is the American name of Williams, as
Wikipedia says, that's not my experience. I'd say
Boscs are less forgiving than Bartletts.

--
Jerry Friedman

--

Ken Blake

2024-12-05 15:57:40 UTC

I have a bottle of what I take to be pear schnapps.
Sent to me by a
fellow Kunstschmied in Bavaria. He raises the pears in a small orchard,
presses them and ferments the juice, than pays a entity that is (AIUI)
licensed to do so to distill it.
Not even slightly sweet, terrifically potent. I can read a little
German but not German script so I don't know what he's written by hand
(in gold ink!) on the bottle.

To my mind the best spirit that exists, called Vilmos pálinka in
Hungary.

The generic term is palinka/palinca.
Preceding it is the name of some fruit, pear in this case.

And if no fruit is mentioned it is plum brandy.

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Not easy to find in France, however.

You have native Poire Williams instead,

"Vilmos" is a Hungarianized spelling of Williams.

I've drunk both, but too long apart to make a meaningful comparison.

Post by J. J. Lodder
I also have no idea of why the French got stuck
with an English kind of pear rather than some native kind,

Because the Williams is the pear with the best taste.

Not to me. To me the best pear is comice.

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Its major problem
is that if you try to eat it a day too soon it is too hard; if you try
to eat it a day too late it s mushy; you have to eat it when it's just
right. Other pears are more forgiving.

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2024-12-05 18:58:42 UTC

Post by Ken Blake

I have a bottle of what I take to be pear schnapps.
Sent to me by a
fellow Kunstschmied in Bavaria. He raises the pears in a small orchard,
presses them and ferments the juice, than pays a entity that is (AIUI)
licensed to do so to distill it.
Not even slightly sweet, terrifically potent. I can read a little
German but not German script so I don't know what he's written by hand
(in gold ink!) on the bottle.

To my mind the best spirit that exists, called Vilmos pálinka in
Hungary.

The generic term is palinka/palinca.
Preceding it is the name of some fruit, pear in this case.

And if no fruit is mentioned it is plum brandy.

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Not easy to find in France, however.

You have native Poire Williams instead,

"Vilmos" is a Hungarianized spelling of Williams.

I've drunk both, but too long apart to make a meaningful comparison.

Post by J. J. Lodder
I also have no idea of why the French got stuck
with an English kind of pear rather than some native kind,

Because the Williams is the pear with the best taste.

Not to me. To me the best pear is comice.

OK. It's always dangerous to present one's opinions as facts.

Post by Ken Blake

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Its major problem>is that if you try to eat it a day too soon it is too
hard; if you try>to eat it a day too late it s mushy; you have to eat
it when it's just>right. Other pears are more forgiving.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

Sam Plusnet

2024-12-05 21:16:36 UTC

Post by Ken Blake

I have a bottle of what I take to be pear schnapps.
Sent to me by a
fellow Kunstschmied in Bavaria. He raises the pears in a small orchard,
presses them and ferments the juice, than pays a entity that is (AIUI)
licensed to do so to distill it.
Not even slightly sweet, terrifically potent. I can read a little
German but not German script so I don't know what he's written by hand
(in gold ink!) on the bottle.

To my mind the best spirit that exists, called Vilmos pálinka in
Hungary.

The generic term is palinka/palinca.
Preceding it is the name of some fruit, pear in this case.

And if no fruit is mentioned it is plum brandy.

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Not easy to find in France, however.

You have native Poire Williams instead,

"Vilmos" is a Hungarianized spelling of Williams.

I've drunk both, but too long apart to make a meaningful comparison.

Post by J. J. Lodder
I also have no idea of why the French got stuck
with an English kind of pear rather than some native kind,

Because the Williams is the pear with the best taste.

Not to me. To me the best pear is comice.

I would have agreed, but the last few years we have been very disappointed.

--
Sam Plusnet

Sam Plusnet

2024-12-04 22:58:13 UTC

I have a bottle of what I take to be pear schnapps. Sent to me by a
fellow Kunstschmied in Bavaria. He raises the pears in a small orchard,
presses them and ferments the juice, than pays a entity that is (AIUI)
licensed to do so to distill it.
Not even slightly sweet, terrifically potent. I can read a little
German but not German script so I don't know what he's written by hand
(in gold ink!) on the bottle.

<squinting> Hang on... I think I can make it out...

"Not to be taken internally."

--
Sam Plusnet

HVS

2024-12-02 16:59:11 UTC

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen
Someone in the Danish language group wondered about how to
translate the Danish word "snaps" and found from Google that it's
"schnapps" (German spelling) in English. Big surprise.
schnapps:eng_gb_2019,schnapps:eng_us_2019
It shows that the word is fairly common (four zeroes - not much
pondian difference), and the curve rises in 2000 and drops
dramatically around 2020. I do not ask you to explain the rise and
fall of the roma ... sorry word, but I am a bit surprised that the
word is so common. What is your experience?

I've not heard it used for some years, but when I lived in Canada (pre-
1982), it was an entirely unremarkable word in my normal vocabulary.

--
Cheers, Harvey

Joerg Walther

2024-12-02 17:38:59 UTC

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen
Someone in the Danish language group wondered about how to translate the
Danish word "snaps" and found from Google that it's "schnapps" (German
spelling) in English.

Only that the German spelling has a capital s and only one p, thus
"Schnaps".

-jw-

--
And now for something completely different...

J. J. Lodder

2024-12-03 21:07:41 UTC

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen
Someone in the Danish language group wondered about how to translate the
Danish word "snaps" and found from Google that it's "schnapps" (German
spelling) in English.

Only that the German spelling has a capital s and only one p, thus
"Schnaps".

You are mistaken about that one.
This is indeed the correct -German- spelling,
but the American spelling is usually 'schnapps'.
The Americans often are ueber-Germans in their spellings.

It is somewhat like that whisky/whiskey thing.
Different products too:
the German stuff is a high quality fruit destilate,
comparable to the French 'Eau de Vie'.

I have no experience with the American stuff,
but from the descriptions it seems to be just a chemical concoction,
and generally vile.
(just chemical flavouring, not enough alcohol, and too much sweetener)

Jan

Bertel Lund Hansen

2024-12-03 21:21:24 UTC

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen
Someone in the Danish language group wondered about how to translate the
Danish word "snaps" and found from Google that it's "schnapps" (German
spelling) in English.

Only that the German spelling has a capital s and only one p, thus
"Schnaps".

You are mistaken about that one.

No, he isn't:

https://www.dwds.de/wb/Schnaps

--
Bertel
Kolt, Denmark

Silvano

2024-12-03 22:42:23 UTC

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen
Someone in the Danish language group wondered about how to translate the
Danish word "snaps" and found from Google that it's "schnapps" (German
spelling) in English.

Only that the German spelling has a capital s and only one p, thus
"Schnaps".

You are mistaken about that one.

https://www.dwds.de/wb/Schnaps

J. J. Lodder may be a good source about Dutch usage and sensibilities,
but definitely not about German usage.
And whoever uses Google for translations can't be taken seriously.

Signed: a professional translator.

Peter Moylan

2024-12-03 22:50:52 UTC

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen
Someone in the Danish language group wondered about how to translate the
Danish word "snaps" and found from Google that it's "schnapps" (German
spelling) in English.

Only that the German spelling has a capital s and only one p, thus
"Schnaps".

You are mistaken about that one.

https://www.dwds.de/wb/Schnaps

You have both misread what Jan wrote. He was pointing out the difference
between the German spelling and the American spelling.

--
Peter Moylan ***@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

Silvano

2024-12-03 23:13:02 UTC

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen
Someone in the Danish language group wondered about how to translate the
Danish word "snaps" and found from Google that it's "schnapps" (German
spelling) in English.

Only that the German spelling has a capital s and only one p, thus
"Schnaps".

You are mistaken about that one.

https://www.dwds.de/wb/Schnaps

You have both misread what Jan wrote. He was pointing out the difference
between the German spelling and the American spelling.

Utterly wrong. I don't read J. J. Lodder, therefore I can't misread him,
but according to the quote he said to Joerg "you are mistaken" about the
German spelling with a capital S and only one p. Joerg is 100% right here.

Joerg with a *.de address and me are happy to leave the discussion about
the _American_ spelling to the Americans. But we have something to say
about the _German_ spelling of Schnaps.

jerryfriedman

2024-12-03 23:58:27 UTC

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen
Someone in the Danish language group wondered about how to translate the
Danish word "snaps" and found from Google that it's "schnapps" (German
spelling) in English.

Only that the German spelling has a capital s and only one p, thus
"Schnaps".

You are mistaken about that one.

https://www.dwds.de/wb/Schnaps

You have both misread what Jan wrote. He was pointing out the difference
between the German spelling and the American spelling.

..

If you look at the whole conversation, you'll see that
Jan knows and knew the correct German spelling, but he
misread the conversation he was replying to.

Post by Peter Moylan
Someone in the Danish language group wondered about how to translate

the

Post by Peter Moylan
Danish word "snaps" and found from Google that it's "schnapps" (German
spelling) in English.

Only that the German spelling has a capital s and only one p, thus
"Schnaps".

You are mistaken about that one.
This is indeed the correct -German- spelling,
but the American spelling is usually 'schnapps'.
The Americans often are ueber-Germans in their spellings."

(Jan went on to talk about the difference between German
Schnaps and American schnapps as I and others had
described it.)

--
Jerry Friedman

--

J. J. Lodder

2024-12-04 20:17:25 UTC

Post by jerryfriedman

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen
Someone in the Danish language group wondered about how to translate the
Danish word "snaps" and found from Google that it's "schnapps" (German
spelling) in English.

Only that the German spelling has a capital s and only one p, thus
"Schnaps".

You are mistaken about that one.

https://www.dwds.de/wb/Schnaps

You have both misread what Jan wrote. He was pointing out the difference
between the German spelling and the American spelling.

..
If you look at the whole conversation, you'll see that
Jan knows and knew the correct German spelling, but he
misread the conversation he was replying to.

That is indeed quite possible.
Joerg stated that 'the German spelling -has-...'
That leaves open the possibility that he knows
that there are other spellings than the (official) German one.
I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that he didn't. (then)
Whatever, the statement sounded rather dogmatic to me,

Jan

Peter Moylan

2024-12-04 04:47:06 UTC

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen
Someone in the Danish language group wondered about how
to translate the Danish word "snaps" and found from
Google that it's "schnapps" (German spelling) in
English.

Only that the German spelling has a capital s and only one
p, thus "Schnaps".

You are mistaken about that one.

https://www.dwds.de/wb/Schnaps

J. J. Lodder may be a good source about Dutch usage and
sensibilities, but definitely not about German usage. And whoever
uses Google for translations can't be taken seriously.
Signed: a professional translator.

You have both misread what Jan wrote. He was pointing out the
difference between the German spelling and the American spelling.

Utterly wrong. I don't read J. J. Lodder, therefore I can't misread him,

OK, so you wouldn't have seen the part that Bertel snipped.

Post by Silvano
but according to the quote he said to Joerg "you are mistaken" about
the German spelling with a capital S and only one p. Joerg is 100%
right here.

That's your extrapolation. You didn't read the bit saying "This is
indeed the correct German spelling."

--
Peter Moylan ***@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

J. J. Lodder

2024-12-04 10:40:54 UTC

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen
Someone in the Danish language group wondered about how to translate the
Danish word "snaps" and found from Google that it's "schnapps" (German
spelling) in English.

Only that the German spelling has a capital s and only one p, thus
"Schnaps".

You are mistaken about that one.

https://www.dwds.de/wb/Schnaps

You have both misread what Jan wrote. He was pointing out the difference
between the German spelling and the American spelling.

Utterly wrong. I don't read J. J. Lodder, therefore I can't misread him,
but according to the quote he said to Joerg "you are mistaken" about the
German spelling with a capital S and only one p. Joerg is 100% right here.
Joerg with a *.de address and me are happy to leave the discussion about
the _American_ spelling to the Americans. But we have something to say
about the _German_ spelling of Schnaps.

Never, repeat never, trust Bertel to quote correctly.
He is usually quote mining to make points falsely,
because he is unable to say anything otherwise,

Jan

occam

2024-12-04 13:48:11 UTC

Post by J. J. Lodder
Never, repeat never, trust Bertel to quote correctly.

<grin>

Post by J. J. Lodder
He is usually quote mining to make points falsely,

He does not set out to make false statements. However he quotes what
suits his attention span.

Post by J. J. Lodder
because he is unable to say anything otherwise,

...unless he appends '...in Denmark' to any statement. (He knows no one
will bother to challenge him.)

Silvano

2024-12-04 16:40:25 UTC

Post by J. J. Lodder
He is usually quote mining to make points falsely,

He does not set out to make false statements. However he quotes what
suits his attention span.

Like most of us, I think. There are many subjects I know nothing about
or have no interest in. A very recent example is the pronunciation of
Magdalen Street, Bridge and College in Oxford. Then I just lurk and,
perhaps, I learn something.

Post by J. J. Lodder
because he is unable to say anything otherwise,

...unless he appends '...in Denmark' to any statement. (He knows no one
will bother to challenge him.)

Wrong. Anders, the only other Danish AUE reader I'm aware of, could
challenge Bertel and he did express his different opinion a few times.
So far he did it only very rarely. I think I know why.

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2024-12-04 17:45:28 UTC

Post by J. J. Lodder
Never, repeat never, trust Bertel to quote correctly.

<grin>

Post by J. J. Lodder
He is usually quote mining to make points falsely,

He does not set out to make false statements. However he quotes what
suits his attention span.

Post by J. J. Lodder
because he is unable to say anything otherwise,

...unless he appends '...in Denmark' to any statement. (He knows no one
will bother to challenge him.)

Not a safe assumption, we have another Dane here, and Tony has a
brother, I think, who lives in Denmark.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

Tony Cooper

2024-12-04 19:52:03 UTC

Post by J. J. Lodder
Never, repeat never, trust Bertel to quote correctly.

<grin>

Post by J. J. Lodder
He is usually quote mining to make points falsely,

He does not set out to make false statements. However he quotes what
suits his attention span.

Post by J. J. Lodder
because he is unable to say anything otherwise,

...unless he appends '...in Denmark' to any statement. (He knows no one
will bother to challenge him.)

Not a safe assumption, we have another Dane here, and Tony has a
brother, I think, who lives in Denmark.

I do, but our WhatsApp conversations rarely cover issues that
discussed in a.u.e. He owns no animals, so he's apparently unaffected
by the Fart Tax.

Like many elderly brothers (he's four years younger than I am) who are
separated by distance, in much our conversations the topic is trying
to remember the name or place of something that we experienced when
younger.

J. J. Lodder

2024-12-04 20:17:25 UTC

Post by J. J. Lodder
Never, repeat never, trust Bertel to quote correctly.

<grin>

Post by J. J. Lodder
He is usually quote mining to make points falsely,

He does not set out to make false statements. However he quotes what
suits his attention span.

An attention span of one line only?
I think that this may be too kind an explanation.

Post by J. J. Lodder
because he is unable to say anything otherwise,

...unless he appends '...in Denmark' to any statement. (He knows no one
will bother to challenge him.)

Yes, it is unfortunate for him that 'Bei Uns in Deutschland'
is already taken,

Jan

J. J. Lodder

2024-12-04 20:17:26 UTC

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen
Someone in the Danish language group wondered about how to translate the
Danish word "snaps" and found from Google that it's "schnapps" (German
spelling) in English.

Only that the German spelling has a capital s and only one p, thus
"Schnaps".

You are mistaken about that one.

https://www.dwds.de/wb/Schnaps

You have both misread what Jan wrote. He was pointing out the difference
between the German spelling and the American spelling.

Utterly wrong. I don't read J. J. Lodder, therefore I can't misread him,
but according to the quote he said to Joerg "you are mistaken" about the
German spelling with a capital S and only one p. Joerg is 100% right here.
Joerg with a *.de address and me are happy to leave the discussion about
the _American_ spelling to the Americans. But we have something to say
about the _German_ spelling of Schnaps.

OK, lets forget about the whole thing.
You fell for a malicious quote mine,
and went on to unwarranted conclusions.

'Zand erover',

Jan

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2024-12-04 09:40:01 UTC

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen
Someone in the Danish language group wondered about how to translate the
Danish word "snaps" and found from Google that it's "schnapps" (German
spelling) in English.

Only that the German spelling has a capital s and only one p, thus
"Schnaps".

You are mistaken about that one.

https://www.dwds.de/wb/Schnaps

You have both misread what Jan wrote. He was pointing out the difference
between the German spelling and the American spelling.

That was my understanding of what Jan wrote.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

Bertel Lund Hansen

2024-12-04 08:11:58 UTC

Post by Joerg Walther
Only that the German spelling has a capital s and only one p, thus
"Schnaps".

You are mistaken about that one.

https://www.dwds.de/wb/Schnaps

J. J. Lodder may be a good source about Dutch usage and sensibilities,
but definitely not about German usage.
And whoever uses Google for translations can't be taken seriously.

Correction: Whoever uses Google for translations as the only source
can't be taken seriously.

I use Google or Deepl, but I always check with an online dictionary
afterwards. I probably could find an online dictionary with
Danish-English both ways, but I have gotten used to single language
ditionaries and I think that that benefits me in the long run.

--
Bertel
Kolt, Denmark

occam

2024-12-04 14:18:03 UTC

On 03/12/2024 23:42, Silvano wrote:
:

<snip>

Post by Silvano
J. J. Lodder may be a good source about Dutch usage and sensibilities,
but definitely not about German usage.
And whoever uses Google for translations can't be taken seriously.
Signed: a professional translator.

Can I ask Silvano - do you translate into German or into Italian? Your
name suggests Italian, but your knowledge of German hints at German too.

You must be aware to the Italian expression "Traduttore, traditore".
This precedes Google translator by a few centuries. So you see, humans
are as suspect as AIs, when it comes to translations.

HVS

2024-12-04 15:34:35 UTC

Post by occam
<snip>

Post by Silvano
J. J. Lodder may be a good source about Dutch usage and
sensibilities, but definitely not about German usage.
And whoever uses Google for translations can't be taken
seriously.
Signed: a professional translator.

Can I ask Silvano - do you translate into German or into Italian?
Your name suggests Italian, but your knowledge of German hints at
German too.
You must be aware to the Italian expression "Traduttore,
traditore". This precedes Google translator by a few centuries. So
you see, humans are as suspect as AIs, when it comes to
translations.

This has always intrigued me.

AIUI, there's no term in French which carries the neutrality of the
English term of "translation" -- to simply render something in one
language to another. "Traduction" has a negative connotation
(retained in the English use of "traduce"), meaning something like
"to contort/distort from one language to another".

The English idiom that something is "lost in translation" is
presumably redundant in French, as "traduction" already includes that
connotation.

"Traduttore, traditore" speaks to the same principle, but does
"traduzione" have the possible neutrality of the English
"translation", or does it carry the inherently negative connotation
of the French "traduction"?

More generally, do the terms for "translation" in other languages
lean towards the English presumption that the action can be largely
neutral, or is the concept of translation seen as inherently
negative?

--
Cheers, Harvey

Silvano

2024-12-04 17:22:46 UTC

Post by occam
<snip>

Post by Silvano
J. J. Lodder may be a good source about Dutch usage and
sensibilities, but definitely not about German usage.
And whoever uses Google for translations can't be taken
seriously.
Signed: a professional translator.

Can I ask Silvano - do you translate into German or into Italian?

Of course you can ask me. See my answer below.

Post by occam
Your name suggests Italian, but your knowledge of German hints at
German too.

Professional translators like me normally translate only into their
mother tongue, in my case Italian. I do translate into German as well, but:
1) I have been living in Germany and speaking mostly German for quite
some time, more precisely since 1984, which beats even Athel in France.
2) I always have a native German speaker read my German translations,
correct my mistakes and make my texts easier to read. Last week I gave
her a really hard task with over 60,000 characters of a sentence in
legal German. We spent together 3 or 4 hours making the bloody thing at
least slightly easier to understand for someone who is not a German lawyer.

Post by occam
You must be aware to the Italian expression "Traduttore,
traditore". This precedes Google translator by a few centuries. So
you see, humans are as suspect as AIs, when it comes to
translations.

Of course I know it and I hate it, but:
1) Translators do make mistakes, like anyone else.
2) I suspect the adage originated with the dragomans and their
colleagues working for the Emperor of China, who added the essential
respect or even subservience formulas to what European envoys said,
because they wanted to reduce the risk that the Ottoman Sultan or the
Chinese Emperor order the envoys, and possibly the interpreters too, to
be murdered for disrespecting them.
3) AI translation mistakes are different from human mistakes. Ours come
from misunderstandings or lack of knowledge, AI's come from the
intrinsic inability to think and understand. I read just yesterday an
interesting article in "Lebende Sprachen" (Living Languages) about bad
AI translation mistakes, because the original French relied on some
previous underlying knowledge. I had only noticed something odd in the
German test, but human translators who know the French legal system
better than I do could, and good legal translators would have added the
hidden information in their German translation. AFAIK no AI programme
has ever studied the French and German legal system.

Post by HVS
This has always intrigued me.
AIUI, there's no term in French which carries the neutrality of the
English term of "translation" -- to simply render something in one
language to another. "Traduction" has a negative connotation
(retained in the English use of "traduce"), meaning something like
"to contort/distort from one language to another".
The English idiom that something is "lost in translation" is
presumably redundant in French, as "traduction" already includes that
connotation.
"Traduttore, traditore" speaks to the same principle, but does
"traduzione" have the possible neutrality of the English
"translation", or does it carry the inherently negative connotation
of the French "traduction"?
More generally, do the terms for "translation" in other languages
lean towards the English presumption that the action can be largely
neutral, or is the concept of translation seen as inherently
negative?

I see "traduzione" as neutral.
I'll leave it to the few German native speakers who read AUE to tell us
if they see Übersetzung as neutral or negative.
If he wants, Anton could tell us his opinion about перевод and about the
apparently missing distinction betwee translator and interpreter in Russian.
The same goes for native speakers of other languages.

Peter Moylan

2024-12-04 22:21:30 UTC

Post by Silvano
2) I always have a native German speaker read my German
translations, correct my mistakes and make my texts easier to read.
Last week I gave her a really hard task with over 60,000 characters
of a sentence in legal German.

I know that German writers have a tendency to create rather long
sentences, but this one sounds extreme.

--
Peter Moylan ***@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

lar3ryca

2024-12-05 05:40:11 UTC

I know that German writers have a tendency to create rather long
sentences, but this one sounds extreme.

So that's what, about 500 words?

--
I didn't know why they were telling me about all those birds sitting on
the wire, but then I understood.

Silvano

2024-12-05 06:54:45 UTC

Sorry, I should have written adjudication, not sentence.

Post by Peter Moylan
I know that German writers have a tendency to create rather long
sentences, but this one sounds extreme.

Italian and German judges and lawyers have never adopted the strange
Anglo-Saxon custom of writing contracts in only one sentence.
Actually, many Italian sentences in that adjudication were even more
convoluted than "usual" legalese Italian and I had to split them into
two or even three German sentences to make the text readable.

Mike Spencer

2024-12-05 06:55:00 UTC

Post by Silvano
Professional translators like me normally translate only into their
mother tongue, in my case Italian.

In 1980 I attended an international blacksmithing conference in
England. one of the presenters was prominent Italian smith who had no
English. The conference people had arraanged for a translator, an
Oxford don IIRC. He was agreeable and even charming but, by my
Canadian standards, very stiff and formal in demeanor, dress and
speech .

When the Italian smith delivered his opening remarks, the translator
stood erect and delivered the English translation with the same
reserved demeanor. But when he later translated questions or comments
from the audience into Italian, he became suddenly a flurry of hand
gestures, arm waving, dynamic body language and facial expression.

My take was that this reflected an accomplished mastery of elements
intrinsic to conversational Italian.

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

Silvano

2024-12-05 07:59:30 UTC

Post by Silvano
Professional translators like me normally translate only into their
mother tongue, in my case Italian.

In 1980 I attended an international blacksmithing conference in
England. one of the presenters was prominent Italian smith who had no
English. The conference people had arraanged for a translator, an
Oxford don IIRC. He was agreeable and even charming but, by my
Canadian standards, very stiff and formal in demeanor, dress and
speech .
When the Italian smith delivered his opening remarks, the translator
stood erect and delivered the English translation with the same
reserved demeanor. But when he later translated questions or comments
from the audience into Italian, he became suddenly a flurry of hand
gestures, arm waving, dynamic body language and facial expression.
My take was that this reflected an accomplished mastery of elements
intrinsic to conversational Italian.

Back to the basics.
You're talking about interpreters. I was talking about translators.
Interpreters speak. Translators write. Some people can be both - I am
one of them.

Interpreters have to switch between two languages, though in some cases
they'll be talking mainly in one of them. Also, interpreters in front of
an audience will not behave in the same way as those sitting in a booth
and doing simultaneous interpreting. A flurry of hand gestures is
pointless when only your colleague in the same booth can see you.

Translators write texts in the language X (normally their first
language) from originals in the language Y. In some cases, when only few
native speakers of Y know X, they will often have to write texts in the
language Y from originals in the language X, e.g. when X = Estonian and
Y = English.

Mike Spencer

2024-12-05 21:44:29 UTC

Post by Silvano
Professional translators like me normally translate only into their
mother tongue, in my case Italian.

In 1980 I attended an international blacksmithing conference in
England. one of the presenters was prominent Italian smith who had no
English. The conference people had arraanged for a translator, an
Oxford don IIRC. He was agreeable and even charming but, by my
Canadian standards, very stiff and formal in demeanor, dress and
speech .
When the Italian smith delivered his opening remarks, the translator
stood erect and delivered the English translation with the same
reserved demeanor. But when he later translated questions or comments
from the audience into Italian, he became suddenly a flurry of hand
gestures, arm waving, dynamic body language and facial expression.
My take was that this reflected an accomplished mastery of elements
intrinsic to conversational Italian.

Back to the basics.
You're talking about interpreters. I was talking about translators.
Interpreters speak. Translators write.

Good. I understand. Thank you for the clarifying the distinction.

Post by Silvano
Some people can be both - I am one of them.
Interpreters have to switch between two languages, though in some cases
they'll be talking mainly in one of them. Also, interpreters in front of
an audience will not behave in the same way as those sitting in a booth
and doing simultaneous interpreting.

The case I remarked on wasn't doing simultaneous interpretation but
yes, I thought of that at the time. One might be exceptionally
proficient in the booth context while lacking something important in
the face to face context.

Post by Silvano
A flurry of hand gestures is
pointless when only your colleague in the same booth can see you.

Just so.

Post by Silvano
Translators write texts in the language X (normally their first
language) from originals in the language Y. In some cases, when only few
native speakers of Y know X, they will often have to write texts in the
language Y from originals in the language X, e.g. when X = Estonian and
Y = English.

Tnx,

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

lar3ryca

2024-12-05 23:16:59 UTC

Post by Silvano
Professional translators like me normally translate only into their
mother tongue, in my case Italian.

In 1980 I attended an international blacksmithing conference in
England. one of the presenters was prominent Italian smith who had no
English. The conference people had arraanged for a translator, an
Oxford don IIRC. He was agreeable and even charming but, by my
Canadian standards, very stiff and formal in demeanor, dress and
speech .
When the Italian smith delivered his opening remarks, the translator
stood erect and delivered the English translation with the same
reserved demeanor. But when he later translated questions or comments
from the audience into Italian, he became suddenly a flurry of hand
gestures, arm waving, dynamic body language and facial expression.
My take was that this reflected an accomplished mastery of elements
intrinsic to conversational Italian.

Q: What does an Italian call a broken arm?
A: un impedimento nel parlare

--
A pessimist's blood type is always B-negative.

J. J. Lodder

2024-12-05 10:57:05 UTC

Post by occam
<snip>

Post by Silvano
J. J. Lodder may be a good source about Dutch usage and
sensibilities, but definitely not about German usage.
And whoever uses Google for translations can't be taken
seriously.
Signed: a professional translator.

Can I ask Silvano - do you translate into German or into Italian?
Your name suggests Italian, but your knowledge of German hints at
German too.
You must be aware to the Italian expression "Traduttore,
traditore". This precedes Google translator by a few centuries. So
you see, humans are as suspect as AIs, when it comes to
translations.

How could it be otherwise?
French is the most superior language in the world,
and thinking clearly and logicaly is possible only in French.
So, apart from the fact that the original text must have been based
at least in part on muddled thinking, it is obviously inevitable
that the original cannot be rendered into the subtleties
that are possible only French.
I happen to know, because all this was clearly explained to me,
in the best possibe French of course, by a philosophe.

Post by HVS
"Traduttore, traditore" speaks to the same principle, but does
"traduzione" have the possible neutrality of the English
"translation", or does it carry the inherently negative connotation
of the French "traduction"?
More generally, do the terms for "translation" in other languages
lean towards the English presumption that the action can be largely
neutral, or is the concept of translation seen as inherently
negative?

The English are worse.
They assume that they can improve on the original by translating it.
(English humour being superior to Goscinny, as discussed already)

The Dutch idea of 'vertalen' is mostly of the neutral kind.
They have a 'small' language, and they have more experience with it
than most others. They have become good at it.
AFAIK Dutch is the only language in which a complete translation
of 'Finnegans Wake' exists,

Jan

--
rivierein, langst de Eva en Adam, van zwier van strand naar bocht van
baai, brengt ons via een commodius vicus van recirculatie terug naar....

Sam Plusnet

2024-12-05 21:22:20 UTC

Post by occam
<snip>

Post by Silvano
J. J. Lodder may be a good source about Dutch usage and
sensibilities, but definitely not about German usage.
And whoever uses Google for translations can't be taken
seriously.
Signed: a professional translator.

Can I ask Silvano - do you translate into German or into Italian?
Your name suggests Italian, but your knowledge of German hints at
German too.
You must be aware to the Italian expression "Traduttore,
traditore". This precedes Google translator by a few centuries. So
you see, humans are as suspect as AIs, when it comes to
translations.

No doubt a translation of the Quran into French would be superior to the
original.

--
Sam Plusnet

J. J. Lodder

2024-12-06 10:48:39 UTC

Post by occam
<snip>

Post by Silvano
J. J. Lodder may be a good source about Dutch usage and
sensibilities, but definitely not about German usage.
And whoever uses Google for translations can't be taken
seriously.
Signed: a professional translator.

Can I ask Silvano - do you translate into German or into Italian?
Your name suggests Italian, but your knowledge of German hints at
German too.
You must be aware to the Italian expression "Traduttore,
traditore". This precedes Google translator by a few centuries. So
you see, humans are as suspect as AIs, when it comes to
translations.

No doubt a translation of the Quran into French would be superior to the
original.

But of course.
We also know that the King James is the only literally true one,
don't we?

Jan

Sam Plusnet

2024-12-06 19:49:17 UTC

Post by occam
<snip>

Post by Silvano
J. J. Lodder may be a good source about Dutch usage and
sensibilities, but definitely not about German usage.
And whoever uses Google for translations can't be taken
seriously.
Signed: a professional translator.

Can I ask Silvano - do you translate into German or into Italian?
Your name suggests Italian, but your knowledge of German hints at
German too.
You must be aware to the Italian expression "Traduttore,
traditore". This precedes Google translator by a few centuries. So
you see, humans are as suspect as AIs, when it comes to
translations.

No doubt a translation of the Quran into French would be superior to the
original.

But of course.
We also know that the King James is the only literally true one,
don't we?

It's a shame that Tyndale couldn't sue for breach of copyright.

He didn't even get an acknowledgement.

--
Sam Plusnet

Peter Moylan

2024-12-06 22:29:40 UTC

Post by occam
<snip>

Post by Silvano
J. J. Lodder may be a good source about Dutch usage and
sensibilities, but definitely not about German usage.
And whoever uses Google for translations can't be taken
seriously.
Signed: a professional translator.

Can I ask Silvano - do you translate into German or into Italian?
Your name suggests Italian, but your knowledge of German hints at
German too.
You must be aware to the Italian expression "Traduttore,
traditore". This precedes Google translator by a few centuries. So
you see, humans are as suspect as AIs, when it comes to
translations.

No doubt a translation of the Quran into French would be superior to the
original.

But of course.
We also know that the King James is the only literally true one,
don't we?

It's a shame that Tyndale couldn't sue for breach of copyright.
He didn't even get an acknowledgement.

At least he is now acknowledged for the work he did. James probably
didn't write a single word of his book.

--
Peter Moylan ***@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

Sam Plusnet

2024-12-07 01:23:55 UTC

Post by occam
<snip>

Post by Silvano
J. J. Lodder may be a good source about Dutch usage and
sensibilities, but definitely not about German usage.
And whoever uses Google for translations can't be taken
seriously.
Signed: a professional translator.

Can I ask Silvano - do you translate into German or into Italian?
Your name suggests Italian, but your knowledge of German hints at
German too.
You must be aware to the Italian expression "Traduttore,
traditore". This precedes Google translator by a few centuries. So
you see, humans are as suspect as AIs, when it comes to
translations.

No doubt a translation of the Quran into French would be superior to the
original.

But of course.
We also know that the King James is the only literally true one,
don't we?

It's a shame that Tyndale couldn't sue for breach of copyright.
He didn't even get an acknowledgement.

At least he is now acknowledged for the work he did. James probably
didn't write a single word of his book.

Every time I read something like:
"Henry VIII built a palace at..."
I get a mental picture of him, dressed as in that Holbein portrait, but
carrying a hod of fresh mortar up a ladder.

--
Sam Plusnet

Joerg Walther

2024-12-07 10:25:15 UTC

Post by Sam Plusnet
"Henry VIII built a palace at..."
I get a mental picture of him, dressed as in that Holbein portrait, but
carrying a hod of fresh mortar up a ladder.

This reminds me of a poem by Bertolt Brecht: "Fragen eines lesenden
Arbeiters":

Questions from a Worker who Reads History
Bertolt Brecht
Translated by A.Z. Foreman
Click to hear me read the original German

Who built seven-gated Thebes?
The books keep the names of kings.
Was it kings who hauled the chunks of rock?
And Babylon, destroyed and redestroyed,
Who built and rebuilt it all those times? In what houses
Of gold-gleaming Lima did its builders live?
Where did the masons go that evening
When the Great Wall of China
Was done? Great Rome
Is full of triumphal arches. Who erected them? Whom
Did the Caesars triumph over? Did much-hymned Byzantium
Have only palaces for all who lived there? Even in legended Atlantis
The night the sea devoured it, the drowning still
Shouted for their slaves.

Young Alexander conquered India.
All by himself?
Caesar beat the Gauls.
Had he not so much as a cook with him?
Philip of Spain wept when his Armada
Went down. Did nobody else weep?
Frederick II won the Seven Years' War. Who
Besides him won it?
A victory every page
Who cooked the victory feasts?
A great man every decade
Who paid the bill?

So many reports
So many questions

The Original:

Fragen eines lesenden Arbeiters
Bertolt Brecht

Wer baute das siebentorige Theben?
In den Büchern stehen die Namen von Königen.
Haben die Könige die Felsbrocken herbeigeschleppt?
Und das mehrmals zerstörte Babylon
Wer baute es so viele Male auf? In welchen Häusern
Des goldstrahlenden Lima wohnten die Bauleute?
Wohin gingen an dem Abend, wo die Chinesische Mauer fertig war
Die Maurer? Das große Rom
Ist voll von Triumphbögen. Wer errichtete sie? Über wen
Triumphierten die Cäsaren? Hatte das vielbesungene Byzanz
Nur Paläste für seine Bewohner? Selbst in dem sagenhaften Atlantis
Brüllten in der Nacht, wo das Meer es verschlang
Die Ersaufenden nach ihren Sklaven.

Der junge Alexander eroberte Indien.
Er allein?
Cäsar schlug die Gallier.
Hatte er nicht wenigstens einen Koch bei sich?
Philipp von Spanien weinte, als seine Flotte
Untergegangen war. Weinte sonst niemand?
Friedrich der Zweite siegte im Siebenjährigen Krieg. Wer
Siegte außer ihm?

Jede Seite ein Sieg.
Wer kochte den Siegesschmaus?
Alle zehn Jahre ein großer Mann.
Wer bezahlte die Spesen?

So viele Berichte.
So viele Fragen.

Source:
https://poemsintranslation.blogspot.com/2021/10/bertolt-brecht-questions-from-worker.html

-jw-

--
And now for something completely different...

Bertietaylor

2024-12-07 10:39:01 UTC

Post by Sam Plusnet
"Henry VIII built a palace at..."
I get a mental picture of him, dressed as in that Holbein portrait, but
carrying a hod of fresh mortar up a ladder.

This reminds me of a poem by Bertolt Brecht: "Fragen eines lesenden
Questions from a Worker who Reads History
Bertolt Brecht
Translated by A.Z. Foreman
Click to hear me read the original German
Who built seven-gated Thebes?
The books keep the names of kings.
Was it kings who hauled the chunks of rock?
And Babylon, destroyed and redestroyed,
Who built and rebuilt it all those times? In what houses
Of gold-gleaming Lima did its builders live?
Where did the masons go that evening
When the Great Wall of China
Was done? Great Rome
Is full of triumphal arches. Who erected them? Whom
Did the Caesars triumph over? Did much-hymned Byzantium
Have only palaces for all who lived there? Even in legended Atlantis
The night the sea devoured it, the drowning still
Shouted for their slaves.
Young Alexander conquered India.
All by himself?
Caesar beat the Gauls.
Had he not so much as a cook with him?
Philip of Spain wept when his Armada
Went down. Did nobody else weep?
Frederick II won the Seven Years' War. Who
Besides him won it?
A victory every page
Who cooked the victory feasts?
A great man every decade
Who paid the bill?
So many reports
So many questions
Fragen eines lesenden Arbeiters
Bertolt Brecht
Wer baute das siebentorige Theben?
In den Büchern stehen die Namen von Königen.
Haben die Könige die Felsbrocken herbeigeschleppt?
Und das mehrmals zerstörte Babylon
Wer baute es so viele Male auf? In welchen Häusern
Des goldstrahlenden Lima wohnten die Bauleute?
Wohin gingen an dem Abend, wo die Chinesische Mauer fertig war
Die Maurer? Das große Rom
Ist voll von Triumphbögen. Wer errichtete sie? Über wen
Triumphierten die Cäsaren? Hatte das vielbesungene Byzanz
Nur Paläste für seine Bewohner? Selbst in dem sagenhaften Atlantis
Brüllten in der Nacht, wo das Meer es verschlang
Die Ersaufenden nach ihren Sklaven.
Der junge Alexander eroberte Indien.

Does eroberte means got kicked out of?

Post by Joerg Walther
Er allein?
Cäsar schlug die Gallier.
Hatte er nicht wenigstens einen Koch bei sich?
Philipp von Spanien weinte, als seine Flotte
Untergegangen war. Weinte sonst niemand?
Friedrich der Zweite siegte im Siebenjährigen Krieg. Wer
Siegte außer ihm?
Jede Seite ein Sieg.
Wer kochte den Siegesschmaus?
Alle zehn Jahre ein großer Mann.
Wer bezahlte die Spesen?
So viele Berichte.
So viele Fragen.
https://poemsintranslation.blogspot.com/2021/10/bertolt-brecht-questions-from-worker.html
-jw-

Joerg Walther

2024-12-07 14:32:30 UTC

Post by Bertietaylor
Does eroberte means got kicked out of?

erobern = conquer

-jw-

--
And now for something completely different...

J. J. Lodder

2024-12-04 20:17:25 UTC

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen
Someone in the Danish language group wondered about how to translate the
Danish word "snaps" and found from Google that it's "schnapps" (German
spelling) in English.

Only that the German spelling has a capital s and only one p, thus
"Schnaps".

You are mistaken about that one.

https://www.dwds.de/wb/Schnaps

As a professional translator you should now that you shouldn't comment
on texts that you (by your own admission) haven't read, or even seen.
And FYI, your refering in this way to Google Translate (and yourself)
is pretentious, self-inflating, and insulting to others,

Jan

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2024-12-04 21:51:03 UTC

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen
Someone in the Danish language group wondered about how to translate the
Danish word "snaps" and found from Google that it's "schnapps" (German
spelling) in English.

Only that the German spelling has a capital s and only one p, thus
"Schnaps".

You are mistaken about that one.

https://www.dwds.de/wb/Schnaps

It's worth noting that Google Translate has improved out of all
recognition in the ten or so years that I've consulted it for French or
Spanish. Bad enough into English, but horrendous into French or
Spanish, as it didn't have clue about gender- or number-agreement. Now
it's not bad at all, and definitely useful.

Curiously it did an excellent job with Hausa even ten years ago, which
one might expect would be more difficult than French or Spanish. Not
that I can read Hausa, but I can tell if a purported translation is
grammatical and makes sense.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

Peter Moylan

2024-12-05 01:13:22 UTC

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
It's worth noting that Google Translate has improved out of all
recognition in the ten or so years that I've consulted it for French
or Spanish. Bad enough into English, but horrendous into French or
Spanish, as it didn't have clue about gender- or number-agreement.
Now it's not bad at all, and definitely useful.
Curiously it did an excellent job with Hausa even ten years ago,
which one might expect would be more difficult than French or
Spanish. Not that I can read Hausa, but I can tell if a purported
translation is grammatical and makes sense.

I include language files with some of my software, to provide the
labelling on things like configuration notebooks. In the past I had the
help of volunteers for creating the non-English versions. Those days are
gone, so now I rely on Google Translate. And I agree, it has improved
enormously in recent times. I'm not getting any complaints about things
like garbled Danish. The main catch is with words that have more than
one meaning. That can be handled by putting the word in context into a
sentence, and seeing what translation that gives. It's not very often
that I need to consult a dictionary.

--
Peter Moylan ***@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

occam

2024-12-05 09:42:26 UTC

Amen to that. I would also add that AI supported automatic translation
(in any language) will continue to improve, whereas human-only
translation will not.

I am willing to take a Bitcoin wager with anyone here, that by 2050, the
most reliable translations available to us will be AI-assisted, and not
by a human. When you go to a human translator, you take pot-luck. With
AI translations, you have the accumulated expertise (and fine tuning) of
dozens of human translators embedded in the algorithm.

Silvano

2024-12-05 11:05:14 UTC

Amen to that. I would also add that AI supported automatic translation
(in any language) will continue to improve, whereas human-only
translation will not.
I am willing to take a Bitcoin wager with anyone here, that by 2050, the
most reliable translations available to us will be AI-assisted, and not
by a human. When you go to a human translator, you take pot-luck. With
AI translations, you have the accumulated expertise (and fine tuning) of
dozens of human translators embedded in the algorithm.

I have no bitcoins and I'm not quite sure to be here in 2050, nor that
bitcoins will still be available in 2050, but I can warn you: beware of
GIGO!

Also, beware of ambiguous source texts. I still remember one of my first
tasks, a description of a machine tool and its functions with lots of
"Spindeln" and drawings with numbered part lists. The drawings usually
revealed which machine part was a main spindle, a feed shaft, a working
spindle, a lead screw or yet another kind of "Spindel".

Solutions to avoid a human translator:
1) Order a technical writer to modify the source text in such a way that
ambiguity is impossible. Wait a minute: technical writers want to be
paid, too! Cheaper than translators? Perhaps.
2) Teach the AI to read drawings.

Bertietaylor

2024-12-07 10:42:02 UTC

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen
Someone in the Danish language group wondered about how to translate the
Danish word "snaps" and found from Google that it's "schnapps" (German
spelling) in English.

Only that the German spelling has a capital s and only one p, thus
"Schnaps".

You are mistaken about that one.

https://www.dwds.de/wb/Schnaps

Also amusing to with many an appreciative woof woof-woof woof

Bertietaylor

Post by J. J. Lodder
Jan

J. J. Lodder

2024-12-04 10:40:53 UTC