[OT] Cyclone strikes European Union

Post by Hibou
Mayotte is part of the EU, even though it's half a world away, in the
Indian Ocean.
<https://ue.delegfrance.org/outre-mer-2038>
Makes yer fink, dunnit? (Not quite sure what, though. Perhaps "Brussels
sprouts everywhere.")

Yes,but it has the biggest maternity hospital in Europe, or so they
have told us several times. Who'd a-thunk it?

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

occam

2024-12-17 17:43:15 UTC

Yes,but it has the biggest maternity hospital in Europe, or so they have
told us several times. Who'd a-thunk it?

It's the first I hear of Mayotte. La Reunion - yes. Martinique - yes.
French Guyana - yes. Only last week we had a guest from Saint Martin
(Dutch side).

What is so special about Mayotte and maternity? Does it have a
particularly fecund population? Or does France subcontract its
pregnancies to Mayotte?

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2024-12-17 17:56:09 UTC

Yes,but it has the biggest maternity hospital in Europe, or so they have
told us several times. Who'd a-thunk it?

It's the first I hear of Mayotte.

Fortunately it doesn't have a devastating cyclone every week.

Anyway, the news from Mayotte is cataclysmically bad. It makes the
hurricane in Puerto Rico when the orange felon distributed paper towels
look like a picnic. Fortunately the French leaders know that Mayotte is
in France, and are doing their best (maybe not enough, but their best),
whereas the felon didn't know that Puerto Ricans were citizens of the
USA.

We shall certainly soon be asked to contribute to a disaster fund, and
we shall, of course.

Post by occam
La Reunion - yes. Martinique - yes.
French Guyana - yes. Only last week we had a guest from Saint Martin
(Dutch side).
What is so special about Mayotte and maternity? Does it have a
particularly fecund population? Or does France

Mayotte is IN France!

Post by occam
subcontract its
pregnancies to Mayotte?

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

lar3ryca

2024-12-17 19:06:37 UTC

Yes,but it has the biggest maternity hospital in Europe, or so they have
told us several times. Who'd a-thunk it?

It's the first I hear of Mayotte.

Fortunately it doesn't have a devastating cyclone every week.
Anyway, the news from Mayotte is cataclysmically bad. It makes the
hurricane in Puerto Rico when the orange felon distributed paper towels
look like a picnic. Fortunately the French leaders know that Mayotte is
in France, and are doing their best (maybe not enough, but their best),
whereas the felon didn't know that Puerto Ricans were citizens of the USA.
We shall certainly soon be asked to contribute to a disaster fund, and
we shall, of course.

Mayotte is IN France!

But not the one that was hit by the cyclone, no?

Post by occam
subcontract its
pregnancies to Mayotte?

--
Does the name Pavlov ring a bell?

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2024-12-17 20:54:06 UTC

Yes,but it has the biggest maternity hospital in Europe, or so they have
told us several times. Who'd a-thunk it?

It's the first I hear of Mayotte.

Fortunately it doesn't have a devastating cyclone every week.
Anyway, the news from Mayotte is cataclysmically bad. It makes the
hurricane in Puerto Rico when the orange felon distributed paper towels
look like a picnic. Fortunately the French leaders know that Mayotte is
in France, and are doing their best (maybe not enough, but their best),
whereas the felon didn't know that Puerto Ricans were citizens of the USA.
We shall certainly soon be asked to contribute to a disaster fund, and
we shall, of course.

Mayotte is IN France!

But not the one that was hit by the cyclone, no?

Yes of course it is. Mayotte -- more or less near Madagascar -- is a
French département.

Post by occam
subcontract its
pregnancies to Mayotte?

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

lar3ryca

2024-12-17 22:04:35 UTC

Yes,but it has the biggest maternity hospital in Europe, or so they have
told us several times. Who'd a-thunk it?

It's the first I hear of Mayotte.

Fortunately it doesn't have a devastating cyclone every week.
Anyway, the news from Mayotte is cataclysmically bad. It makes the
hurricane in Puerto Rico when the orange felon distributed paper
towels look like a picnic. Fortunately the French leaders know that
Mayotte is in France, and are doing their best (maybe not enough, but
their best), whereas the felon didn't know that Puerto Ricans were
citizens of the USA.
We shall certainly soon be asked to contribute to a disaster fund,
and we shall, of course.

Mayotte is IN France!

But not the one that was hit by the cyclone, no?

Yes of course it is. Mayotte -- more or less near Madagascar -- is a
French département.

I see. When I looked it up, I saw that it was an island near Madagascar
and that it was a département of France. I took that to mean they were
separate and distinct.

Politics weirds geography.

Post by occam
subcontract its
pregnancies to Mayotte?

--
There was once an Empire, led by an Emperor.
There was once a Kingdom, led by a King.
Canada is a country...

occam

2024-12-18 08:35:47 UTC

Yes,but it has the biggest maternity hospital in Europe, or so they have
told us several times. Who'd a-thunk it?

It's the first I hear of Mayotte.

Fortunately it doesn't have a devastating cyclone every week.
Anyway, the news from Mayotte is cataclysmically bad. It makes the
hurricane in Puerto Rico when the orange felon distributed paper
towels look like a picnic. Fortunately the French leaders know that
Mayotte is in France, and are doing their best (maybe not enough,
but their best), whereas the felon didn't know that Puerto Ricans
were citizens of the USA.
We shall certainly soon be asked to contribute to a disaster fund,
and we shall, of course.

Mayotte is IN France!

But not the one that was hit by the cyclone, no?

Yes of course it is. Mayotte -- more or less near Madagascar -- is a
French département.

I see. When I looked it up, I saw that it was an island near Madagascar
and that it was a département of France. I took that to mean they were
separate and distinct.
Politics weirds geography.

No, it's the French that weird geography. They have this strange habit
of making 'departments' of their overseas territories. The French are
good at suspending disbelief in such matters. (They still believe they
are a force to be reckoned with on the world stage.)

J. J. Lodder

2024-12-19 14:51:31 UTC

Yes,but it has the biggest maternity hospital in Europe, or so they have
told us several times. Who'd a-thunk it?

It's the first I hear of Mayotte.

Fortunately it doesn't have a devastating cyclone every week.
Anyway, the news from Mayotte is cataclysmically bad. It makes the
hurricane in Puerto Rico when the orange felon distributed paper
towels look like a picnic. Fortunately the French leaders know that
Mayotte is in France, and are doing their best (maybe not enough,
but their best), whereas the felon didn't know that Puerto Ricans
were citizens of the USA.
We shall certainly soon be asked to contribute to a disaster fund,
and we shall, of course.

Mayotte is IN France!

But not the one that was hit by the cyclone, no?

Yes of course it is. Mayotte -- more or less near Madagascar -- is a
French département.

I see. When I looked it up, I saw that it was an island near Madagascar
and that it was a département of France. I took that to mean they were
separate and distinct.
Politics weirds geography.

No, it's the French that weird geography. They have this strange habit
of making 'departments' of their overseas territories.

Not really. Only a few of them ever were. (like Algeria)

Post by occam
The French are good at suspending disbelief in such matters.
(They still believe they are a force to be reckoned with on the world
stage.)

Shut up, or they may nuke you,

Jan

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2024-12-18 08:46:11 UTC

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
[ … ]

Post by occam
What is so special about Mayotte and maternity? Does it have a
particularly fecund population? Or does France

Puzzling, I agree, but I saw a possible explanation on the news this
morning. Mayotte has a huge problem with illegal immigration from the
Comores. Apparently it's become common for pregnant Comorean women to
try to get to Mayotte so that their babies will be French citizens.
Contrary to what Donald Trump thinks, the USA is not the only country
with jus soli: about 30 other countries, including France, have it.

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Mayotte is IN France!

But not the one that was hit by the cyclone, no?

Yes of course it is. Mayotte -- more or less near Madagascar -- is a
French département.

I see. When I looked it up, I saw that it was an island near Madagascar
and that it was a département of France. I took that to mean they were
separate and distinct.

Much like Hawaii: would you say that that is too far away from the
lower 48 to be regarded as being in the USA?

Post by lar3ryca
Politics weirds geography.

Post by occam
subcontract its
pregnancies to Mayotte?

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

Tony Cooper

2024-12-18 13:50:00 UTC

On Wed, 18 Dec 2024 09:46:11 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
[ ]

Post by occam
What is so special about Mayotte and maternity? Does it have a
particularly fecund population? Or does France

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Mayotte is IN France!

But not the one that was hit by the cyclone, no?

Yes of course it is. Mayotte -- more or less near Madagascar -- is a
French département.

I see. When I looked it up, I saw that it was an island near Madagascar
and that it was a département of France. I took that to mean they were
separate and distinct.

Much like Hawaii: would you say that that is too far away from the
lower 48 to be regarded as being in the USA?

Post by lar3ryca
Politics weirds geography.

In my usage, Hawaii is part of the USA but not in the USA.

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2024-12-18 14:48:43 UTC

[ … ]

Post by occam
What is so special about Mayotte and maternity? Does it have a
particularly fecund population? Or does France

One other thing I learned today: the inhabitants of Mayotte are called
Mahorais: it sounds a lot too much like Maori to be other than
confusing.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

lar3ryca

2024-12-18 16:13:50 UTC

[ … ]

Post by occam
What is so special about Mayotte and maternity? Does it have a
particularly fecund population? Or does France

One other thing I learned today: the inhabitants of Mayotte are called
Mahorais: it sounds a lot too much like Maori to be other than confusing.

Reminds mme of something I meant to mention here. Yet another newsie
error on our local CTV channel.

I have heard at least three different newsreaders pronounce 'Maori' as
'May-or-ee', with a slight emphasis on the second syllable.

--
I spilled spot remover on my dog. He’s gone now.

Kerr-Mudd, John

2024-12-18 18:10:55 UTC

On Wed, 18 Dec 2024 10:13:50 -0600

[ … ]

Post by occam
What is so special about Mayotte and maternity? Does it have a
particularly fecund population? Or does France

One other thing I learned today: the inhabitants of Mayotte are called
Mahorais: it sounds a lot too much like Maori to be other than confusing.

Reminds mme of something I meant to mention here. Yet another newsie
error on our local CTV channel.
I have heard at least three different newsreaders pronounce 'Maori' as
'May-or-ee', with a slight emphasis on the second syllable.

Colour me naive (or racist, if you wish) but aren't all islanders in the
Indian and Pacific Ocean derived from the same Polynesian seafaring
folk? (Larger islands excepted, e.g. interior Ceylon, Madagascar,
Taiwan, Borneo, Sumatra, Java, New Guinea, Australia). I dunno about the
Philipines. Sarawak, Timor ... oh OK I haven't looked into it properly.

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2024-12-18 18:32:26 UTC

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On Wed, 18 Dec 2024 10:13:50 -0600

[ … ]

Post by occam
What is so special about Mayotte and maternity? Does it have a
particularly fecund population? Or does France

One other thing I learned today: the inhabitants of Mayotte are called
Mahorais: it sounds a lot too much like Maori to be other than confusing.

Reminds mme of something I meant to mention here. Yet another newsie
error on our local CTV channel.
I have heard at least three different newsreaders pronounce 'Maori' as
'May-or-ee', with a slight emphasis on the second syllable.

Madagascar not excepted. Malagasy is an Malayo-Polynesian language.

Of the two indigenous languages of Mayotte, one is related to Malagasy,
but the other is not. To my disappointment, the one with a name that
suggests Maori, Maore Comorian, is an African language related to
Swahili. The one that is related to Malagasy is Kibushi.

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
Taiwan, Borneo, Sumatra, Java, New Guinea, Australia). I dunno about the
Philipines. Sarawak, Timor ... oh OK I haven't looked into it properly.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

Kerr-Mudd, John

2024-12-18 20:14:40 UTC

On Wed, 18 Dec 2024 19:32:26 +0100

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On Wed, 18 Dec 2024 10:13:50 -0600

[ … ]

Post by occam
What is so special about Mayotte and maternity? Does it have a
particularly fecund population? Or does France

One other thing I learned today: the inhabitants of Mayotte are called
Mahorais: it sounds a lot too much like Maori to be other than confusing.

Reminds mme of something I meant to mention here. Yet another newsie
error on our local CTV channel.
I have heard at least three different newsreaders pronounce 'Maori' as
'May-or-ee', with a slight emphasis on the second syllable.

Madagascar not excepted. Malagasy is an Malayo-Polynesian language.

Thanks; I meant that the coastal areas would likely be Austronesian
speaking, but the interior peoples would speak older, nearby mainland
related language(s).

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Of the two indigenous languages of Mayotte, one is related to Malagasy,
but the other is not. To my disappointment, the one with a name that
suggests Maori, Maore Comorian, is an African language related to
Swahili. The one that is related to Malagasy is Kibushi.

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
Taiwan, Borneo, Sumatra, Java, New Guinea, Australia). I dunno about the
Philipines. Sarawak, Timor ... oh OK I haven't looked into it properly.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

Peter Moylan

2024-12-19 00:11:54 UTC

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
One other thing I learned today: the inhabitants of Mayotte are
called Mahorais: it sounds a lot too much like Maori to be other
than confusing.

Reminds mme of something I meant to mention here. Yet another
newsie error on our local CTV channel.
I have heard at least three different newsreaders pronounce 'Maori'
as 'May-or-ee', with a slight emphasis on the second syllable.

The common pronunciation in Australia sounds like mow-ri, with the first
syllable rhyming with cow. The New Zealand pronunciation, which is
probably more legitimate, is a sort of maaa-ri, with stress on the long
first-syllable vowel, and a very short schwa in the middle.

That reminds me of another case. Samoa (once known as Western Samoa) has
a long first vowel and first-syllable stress. (And our newsreaders
respect that.) American Samoa, on the other hand, has a short first
vowel and second-syllable stress.

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
Colour me naive (or racist, if you wish) but aren't all islanders in
the Indian and Pacific Ocean derived from the same Polynesian
seafaring folk? (Larger islands excepted, e.g. interior Ceylon,
Madagascar, Taiwan, Borneo, Sumatra, Java, New Guinea, Australia). I
dunno about the Philipines. Sarawak, Timor ... oh OK I haven't looked
into it properly.

Apparently the Polynesians originated in what is now Taiwan, before
either the Taiwanese or the Chinese reached there. Over time, and
initially over land, they gradually migrated south to Melanesia. I'm not
aware of any cross-fertilisation of Melanesian and Polynesian languages,
but maybe the linguists know better. From there they spread more widely
into the Pacific.

(And some also went west into the Indian Ocean, but we tend not to call
those Polynesians, despite the genetic connection.)

Polynesians who come to Australia, either as long-term migrants or as
migrant workers, are commonly referred to as Islanders here. We don't
include New Zealanders in that term. New Zealand is seen as a special
case, partly because of the size of the country and partly because of
the close political alliance between Australia and New Zealand.

--
Peter Moylan ***@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

lar3ryca

2024-12-19 04:48:54 UTC

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
One other thing I learned today: the inhabitants of Mayotte are
called Mahorais: it sounds a lot too much like Maori to be other
than confusing.

Reminds mme of something I meant to mention here. Yet another
newsie error on our local CTV channel.
I have heard at least three different newsreaders pronounce 'Maori'
as 'May-or-ee', with a slight emphasis on the second syllable.

'mow-ri' is how I've always pronounced it.
When you speak of the New Zealand pronunciation, are you speaking of the
way a Maori would pronounce it? If not, the New Zealand pronunciation
just sounds like a regular Kiwi accent.

Post by Peter Moylan
That reminds me of another case. Samoa (once known as Western Samoa) has
a long first vowel and first-syllable stress. (And our newsreaders
respect that.) American Samoa, on the other hand, has a short first
vowel and second-syllable stress.

Apparently the Polynesians originated in what is now Taiwan, before
either the Taiwanese or the Chinese reached there. Over time, and
initially over land, they gradually migrated south to Melanesia. I'm not
aware of any cross-fertilisation of Melanesian and Polynesian languages,
but maybe the linguists know better. From there they spread more widely
into the Pacific.
(And some also went west into the Indian Ocean, but we tend not to call
those Polynesians, despite the genetic connection.)
Polynesians who come to Australia, either as long-term migrants or as
migrant workers, are commonly referred to as Islanders here. We don't
include New Zealanders in that term. New Zealand is seen as a special
case, partly because of the size of the country and partly because of
the close political alliance between Australia and New Zealand.

--
All those who believe in psychokinesis raise my hand.

Peter Moylan

2024-12-19 06:59:53 UTC

Post by lar3ryca
I have heard at least three different newsreaders pronounce
'Maori' as 'May-or-ee', with a slight emphasis on the second
syllable.

'mow-ri' is how I've always pronounced it. When you speak of the New
Zealand pronunciation, are you speaking of the way a Maori would
pronounce it? If not, the New Zealand pronunciation just sounds like
a regular Kiwi accent.

I mean the indigenous pronunciation, but these days I believe that white
New Zealanders make an effort to imitate the indigenous pronunciation.
That probably wasn't true a generation ago, but attitudes are changing.

To begin with: the officially correct spelling is Māori, with a macron
over the 'a' to indicate that the 'a' is long. It is that long 'a' that
makes the difference. Writing in English we generally leave off the
macron, because it's awkward to type.

You can find pronunciation videos on YouTube. At first hearing the word
sounds like mow-ri, but if you listen carefully you'll hear two differences:
1. The first vowel is a long 'a', not a short 'a'.
2. The first two vowels āo are pronounced separately. The
short 'o' isn't very prominent, but it's there.

I'd better add a clarification that AUE regulars won't need, but it's a
point that might confuse lurkers. US schools (I'm not sure about
Canadian) use a definition of "long vowel" that puts them in conflict
with the rest of the world. When they say "long a" they mean 'a' as in
"cake" or in "may-or-ee". That's not what I meant by "long a" above. I
meant the same vowel sound as for short 'a', but with an increase in
duration.

The newsreaders you heard saying May-or-ee were possibly told to use a
long 'a' for the first vowel, and they did an American long 'a' instead.

--
Peter Moylan ***@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

Garrett Wollman

2024-12-19 15:19:33 UTC

Post by Peter Moylan
I'd better add a clarification that AUE regulars won't need, but it's a
point that might confuse lurkers. US schools (I'm not sure about
Canadian) use a definition of "long vowel" that puts them in conflict
with the rest of the world.

The American definition is approximately "it was a phonologically long
vowel before the Great Vowel Shift turned most of them into
diphthongs". (The elementary-school definition is "it says its name",
which is circular but satisfies the kids because they learn to recite
the alphabet first.)

-GAWollman

--
Garrett A. Wollman | "Act to avoid constraining the future; if you can,
***@bimajority.org| act to remove constraint from the future. This is
Opinions not shared by| a thing you can do, are able to do, to do together."
my employers. | - Graydon Saunders, _A Succession of Bad Days_ (2015)

lar3ryca

2024-12-19 23:11:17 UTC

Post by lar3ryca
I have heard at least three different newsreaders pronounce
'Maori' as 'May-or-ee', with a slight emphasis on the second
syllable.

'mow-ri' is how I've always pronounced it. When you speak of the New
Zealand pronunciation, are you speaking of the way a Maori would
pronounce it? If not, the New Zealand pronunciation just sounds like
a regular Kiwi accent.

I mean the indigenous pronunciation, but these days I believe that white
New Zealanders make an effort to imitate the indigenous pronunciation.
That probably wasn't true a generation ago, but attitudes are changing.
To begin with: the officially correct spelling is Māori, with a macron
over the 'a' to indicate that the 'a' is long. It is that long 'a' that
makes the difference. Writing in English we generally leave off the
macron, because it's awkward to type.
You can find pronunciation videos on YouTube. At first hearing the word
1. The first vowel is a long 'a', not a short 'a'.
2. The first two vowels āo are pronounced separately. The
short 'o' isn't very prominent, but it's there.
I'd better add a clarification that AUE regulars won't need, but it's a
point that might confuse lurkers. US schools (I'm not sure about
Canadian) use a definition of "long vowel" that puts them in conflict
with the rest of the world. When they say "long a" they mean 'a' as in
"cake" or in "may-or-ee". That's not what I meant by "long a" above. I
meant the same vowel sound as for short 'a', but with an increase in
duration.
The newsreaders you heard saying May-or-ee were possibly told to use a
long 'a' for the first vowel, and they did an American long 'a' instead.

Ahh, that could be the reason.

--
From listening comes wisdom and from speaking, repentance.

lar3ryca

2024-12-18 16:10:32 UTC

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
[ … ]

Post by occam
What is so special about Mayotte and maternity? Does it have a
particularly fecund population? Or does France

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Mayotte is IN France!

But not the one that was hit by the cyclone, no?

Yes of course it is. Mayotte -- more or less near Madagascar -- is a
French département.

I see. When I looked it up, I saw that it was an island near
Madagascar and that it was a département of France. I took that to
mean they were separate and distinct.

Much like Hawaii: would you say that that is too far away from the lower
48 to be regarded as being in the USA?

No, but in my defence, I grew up knowing about Hawaii and Alaska, and it
never struck me as odd. It probably would have were I a European.

Post by lar3ryca
Politics weirds geography.

Post by occam
subcontract its
pregnancies to Mayotte?

--
My friend is a Seventh Day Opportunist.
He believes that after he dies, he will return as an aluminum siding
salesman.

Bertel Lund Hansen

2024-12-18 19:10:46 UTC

Post by lar3ryca
I see. When I looked it up, I saw that it was an island near
Madagascar and that it was a département of France. I took that to
mean they were separate and distinct.

Much like Hawaii: would you say that that is too far away from the lower
48 to be regarded as being in the USA?

No, but in my defence, I grew up knowing about Hawaii and Alaska, and it
never struck me as odd. It probably would have were I a European.

As a European you probably would have heard about the little Russian
piece of land below Lithuania. That's a bit like Alaska.

--
Bertel
Kolt, Denmark

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2024-12-18 19:49:58 UTC

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by lar3ryca
I see. When I looked it up, I saw that it was an island near
Madagascar and that it was a département of France. I took that to
mean they were separate and distinct.

Much like Hawaii: would you say that that is too far away from the lower
48 to be regarded as being in the USA?

No, but in my defence, I grew up knowing about Hawaii and Alaska, and it
never struck me as odd. It probably would have were I a European.

As a European you probably would have heard about the little Russian
piece of land below Lithuania. That's a bit like Alaska.

A bit smaller, though.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

lar3ryca

2024-12-19 04:53:55 UTC

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by lar3ryca
I see. When I looked it up, I saw that it was an island near
Madagascar and that it was a département of France. I took that to
mean they were separate and distinct.

Much like Hawaii: would you say that that is too far away from the lower
48 to be regarded as being in the USA?

No, but in my defence, I grew up knowing about Hawaii and Alaska, and it
never struck me as odd. It probably would have were I a European.

As a European you probably would have heard about the little Russian
piece of land below Lithuania. That's a bit like Alaska.

A bit smaller, though.

Heh! When on a course in Dallas, the instructor was a real Texas
booster. I reacted to one of his super-patriot comments, saying that he
should be careful, or Alaska might just split in two and make Texas the
third largest state in the union.

--
I was trying to daydream, but my mind kept wandering.

Paul Wolff

2024-12-21 19:41:50 UTC

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen

Post by lar3ryca
I see. When I looked it up, I saw that it was an island near
Madagascar and that it was a département of France. I took that to
mean they were separate and distinct.

Much like Hawaii: would you say that that is too far away from the lower
48 to be regarded as being in the USA?

No, but in my defence, I grew up knowing about Hawaii and Alaska, and it
never struck me as odd. It probably would have were I a European.

As a European you probably would have heard about the little Russian
piece of land below Lithuania.

Ah, the salt mines.

Post by Bertel Lund Hansen
That's a bit like Alaska.

Or maybe not. Like Königsberg then? No, maybe not that either.

--
Paul W

Janet

2024-12-19 02:49:23 UTC

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
[ ? ]

Post by occam
What is so special about Mayotte and maternity? Does it have a
particularly fecund population? Or does France

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Mayotte is IN France!

But not the one that was hit by the cyclone, no?

Yes of course it is. Mayotte -- more or less near Madagascar -- is a
French département.

I see. When I looked it up, I saw that it was an island near
Madagascar and that it was a département of France. I took that to
mean they were separate and distinct.

Much like Hawaii: would you say that that is too far away from the lower
48 to be regarded as being in the USA?

No, but in my defence, I grew up knowing about Hawaii and Alaska, and it
never struck me as odd. It probably would have were I a European.

If you were an old enough European, you'd have had no
trouble believing much of the world belonged to assorted
European empires.

Janet

J. J. Lodder

2024-12-19 11:04:31 UTC

[ … ]

Post by occam
What is so special about Mayotte and maternity? Does it have a
particularly fecund population? Or does France

Wikipedia doesn't agree. It says that France does not have unlimited
jus soli, like the USA, but instead some mixture of jus soli
and jus sanguinis.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli>

So many of those babies will not become French citizens automatically,

Jan

Sam Plusnet

2024-12-17 20:36:14 UTC

Yes,but it has the biggest maternity hospital in Europe, or so they have
told us several times. Who'd a-thunk it?

It's the first I hear of Mayotte.

Fortunately it doesn't have a devastating cyclone every week.
Anyway, the news from Mayotte is cataclysmically bad. It makes the
hurricane in Puerto Rico when the orange felon distributed paper towels
look like a picnic. Fortunately the French leaders know that Mayotte is
in France, and are doing their best (maybe not enough, but their best),
whereas the felon didn't know that Puerto Ricans were citizens of the USA.

As 'The Felon' might say:
"Puerto Ricans may be citizens, but they don't vote in the presidential
elections, so who the hell cares what goes on there?"

--
Sam Plusnet

Hibou

2024-12-18 07:26:13 UTC

Post by occam
It's the first I hear of Mayotte.

Fortunately it doesn't have a devastating cyclone every week.
Anyway, the news from Mayotte is cataclysmically bad. It makes the
hurricane in Puerto Rico when the orange felon distributed paper towels
look like a picnic. Fortunately the French leaders know that Mayotte is
in France, and are doing their best (maybe not enough, but their best),
whereas the felon didn't know that Puerto Ricans were citizens of the USA.
We shall certainly soon be asked to contribute to a disaster fund, and
we shall, of course.

What I've heard en passant sounds pretty bad - three quarters of people
were already living below the poverty line IIRC, shanty towns flattened,
the phone network destroyed, shortage of drinking water and people
having to drink dirty water....

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2024-12-18 08:48:57 UTC

Post by Hibou

Post by occam
It's the first I hear of Mayotte.

Fortunately it doesn't have a devastating cyclone every week.
Anyway, the news from Mayotte is cataclysmically bad. It makes the
hurricane in Puerto Rico when the orange felon distributed paper towels
look like a picnic. Fortunately the French leaders know that Mayotte is
in France, and are doing their best (maybe not enough, but their best),
whereas the felon didn't know that Puerto Ricans were citizens of the USA.
We shall certainly soon be asked to contribute to a disaster fund, and
we shall, of course.

What I've heard en passant sounds pretty bad - three quarters of people
were already living below the poverty line IIRC, shanty towns
flattened, the phone network destroyed, shortage of drinking water and
people having to drink dirty water....

Indeed. The cyclone just made a very bad situation much worse.

--
Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 37 years; mainly
in England until 1987.

Hibou

2024-12-17 18:57:46 UTC

Yes,but it has the biggest maternity hospital in Europe, or so they have
told us several times. Who'd a-thunk it?

I think that's called 'Putting all your fertilised eggs in one basket'.

Peter Moylan

2024-12-17 22:09:08 UTC

France never had colonies, because it relabelled its colonies to be part
of France. I think that even applied to Algeria.

The colonials don't necessarily agree. There has been unrest in New
Caledonia recently because of a new law, enacted in mainland France by
the mainland French, with no input by the locals, about who may vote in
New Caledonian elections.

--
Peter Moylan ***@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

Hibou

2024-12-18 06:24:03 UTC

France never had colonies, because it relabelled its colonies to be part
of France. I think that even applied to Algeria.
The colonials don't necessarily agree. There has been unrest in New
Caledonia recently because of a new law, enacted in mainland France by
the mainland French, with no input by the locals, about who may vote in
New Caledonian elections.

I often think there's still a touch of the Napoleons in the relationship
between the French state and its citizens, which was manifested in
particular in the Covid restrictions (attestations de déplacement, passe
sanitaire, etc.). This seems to extend even into language. I've seen
people ask whether a turn of phrase is 'autorisée', and find this looks
odd to a native English speaker.

Has the Fifth Republic had its day? Its government is certainly in
trouble, and on France Info yesterday, a woman politician - whose name I
didn't catch - was saying that the constitution was a mess, and they
should have a Sixth Republic.

Conclusion: republics aren't easy. Avoid revolution, I say, and stick
with evolution!

Aidan Kehoe

2024-12-18 08:07:39 UTC

Post by Hibou

[...] France never had colonies, because it relabelled its colonies to be
part of France. I think that even applied to Algeria.
The colonials don't necessarily agree. There has been unrest in New
Caledonia recently because of a new law, enacted in mainland France by
the mainland French, with no input by the locals, about who may vote in
New Caledonian elections.

Well, yes, but the French government’s intervention was fairly reasonable, in
that the previous law disenfranchised large numbers of the residents of New
Caledonia.

The other thing to think about which I don’t see raised often is that when you
have a welfare state it may not necessarily be to the advantage of citizens of
a distant part of the country to be reliant on its own tax base to fund that.
Northern Ireland is well aware of this, and I know it’s not particularly
distant from Britain.

Post by Hibou
I often think there's still a touch of the Napoleons in the relationship
between the French state and its citizens, which was manifested in particular
in the Covid restrictions (attestations de déplacement, passe sanitaire,
etc.). This seems to extend even into language. I've seen people ask whether a
turn of phrase is 'autorisée', and find this looks odd to a native English
speaker.

Yes, agreed.

Post by Hibou
Has the Fifth Republic had its day? Its government is certainly in trouble, and
on France Info yesterday, a woman politician - whose name I didn't catch - was
saying that the constitution was a mess, and they should have a Sixth Republic.
Conclusion: republics aren't easy. Avoid revolution, I say, and stick with
evolution!

Incremental development of anything is easier to debug, hah.

--
‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
(C. Moore)

lar3ryca

2024-12-18 16:06:18 UTC

Post by Hibou

France never had colonies, because it relabelled its colonies to be part
of France. I think that even applied to Algeria.
The colonials don't necessarily agree. There has been unrest in New
Caledonia recently because of a new law, enacted in mainland France by
the mainland French, with no input by the locals, about who may vote in
New Caledonian elections.

Indeed. Dictating language usage is just weird.
In Canada, the whole rationale of Quebec's fear of 'losing their
language' is baffling. I say, if you want to preserve your language,
speak it. Nobody else cares.

Post by Hibou
Has the Fifth Republic had its day? Its government is certainly in
trouble, and on France Info yesterday, a woman politician - whose name I
didn't catch - was saying that the constitution was a mess, and they
should have a Sixth Republic.
Conclusion: republics aren't easy. Avoid revolution, I say, and stick
with evolution!

--
Which side of a chicken has more feathers?
The outside.

Garrett Wollman

2024-12-18 16:50:52 UTC