Discussion:
German pronunciation
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Tony Cooper
2021-03-15 15:35:37 UTC
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This video:
https://petapixel.com/2021/03/13/how-to-pronounce-german-camera-and-lens-brands-correctly/

will not have much interest to most people here because it deals with
pronouncing items (German camera bodies and lenses) with German names
properly. Only a very few of the items will be recognizable by most.

I do have a question, though. At about 50 seconds into this, the
speaker says the word "pronounciation" as "pro-nownce-ee-ation". I
think he says it the same in other place later in the video.

I say that word as "pro-nunce-ee-ation.

I have heard the "pro-nownce-ee-ation" pronunciation from others, and
it's alway bothered me.

Is the speaker's pronunciation common for others?
--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida
Ken Blake
2021-03-15 15:42:51 UTC
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Post by Tony Cooper
https://petapixel.com/2021/03/13/how-to-pronounce-german-camera-and-lens-brands-correctly/
will not have much interest to most people here because it deals with
pronouncing items (German camera bodies and lenses) with German names
properly. Only a very few of the items will be recognizable by most.
I do have a question, though. At about 50 seconds into this, the
speaker says the word "pronounciation" as "pro-nownce-ee-ation". I
think he says it the same in other place later in the video.
I say that word as "pro-nunce-ee-ation.
I have heard the "pro-nownce-ee-ation" pronunciation from others, and
it's alway bothered me.
Is the speaker's pronunciation common for others?
I say it the same way you do. It's not a surprise to me that some people
say "pro-nownce-ee-ation," but I don't remember ever hearing it.
--
Ken
Stefan Ram
2021-03-15 15:48:54 UTC
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Post by Ken Blake
I say it the same way you do. It's not a surprise to me that some people
say "pro-nownce-ee-ation," but I don't remember ever hearing it.
"Pronounciation" was actually spelled and pronounced this
way ("-noun-") since the 16th century, among other variants
such as "pronunciation," but today it is rarely found.

In dictionaries from 1899, 1911, and 1934, I only find
"pronunciation".

The spelling "pronounciation" today is considered as wrong
by almost everyone, while the pronunciation with [-naʊn-]
occasionally occurs and is rarely considered incorrect,
although [-nʌn-] is certainly standard.
Jerry Friedman
2021-03-15 15:48:28 UTC
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Post by Tony Cooper
https://petapixel.com/2021/03/13/how-to-pronounce-german-camera-and-lens-brands-correctly/
will not have much interest to most people here because it deals with
pronouncing items (German camera bodies and lenses) with German names
properly. Only a very few of the items will be recognizable by most.
I do have a question, though. At about 50 seconds into this, the
speaker says the word "pronounciation" as "pro-nownce-ee-ation". I
think he says it the same in other place later in the video.
He was obviously referring to the ciation of pronouns.
Post by Tony Cooper
I say that word as "pro-nunce-ee-ation.
I have heard the "pro-nownce-ee-ation" pronunciation from others, and
it's alway bothered me.
Is the speaker's pronunciation common for others?
When I was in grad school, a fellow student told me that
mispronunciation is common, which might be true, and that I do it,
which is obviously false. I do type "pronounciation" at time and have
to correct it.
--
Jerry Friedman
Peter T. Daniels
2021-03-15 16:17:56 UTC
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Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Tony Cooper
https://petapixel.com/2021/03/13/how-to-pronounce-german-camera-and-lens-brands-correctly/
will not have much interest to most people here because it deals with
pronouncing items (German camera bodies and lenses) with German names
properly. Only a very few of the items will be recognizable by most.
I do have a question, though. At about 50 seconds into this, the
speaker says the word "pronounciation" as "pro-nownce-ee-ation". I
think he says it the same in other place later in the video.
He was obviously referring to the ciation of pronouns.
Post by Tony Cooper
I say that word as "pro-nunce-ee-ation.
I have heard the "pro-nownce-ee-ation" pronunciation from others, and
it's alway bothered me.
Is the speaker's pronunciation common for others?
When I was in grad school, a fellow student told me that
mispronunciation is common, which might be true, and that I do it,
which is obviously false. I do type "pronounciation" at time and have
to correct it.
The ou ~ u alternation is standard: abound/abundance, profound/profundity,
etc. It's part of the pattern that Chomsky & Halle call "trisyllabic laxing," along
with divine/divinity, sane/sanity, serene/serenity, etc.
Jerry Friedman
2021-03-15 16:37:05 UTC
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[pronunciation]
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Tony Cooper
I have heard the "pro-nownce-ee-ation" pronunciation from others, and
it's alway bothered me.
Is the speaker's pronunciation common for others?
When I was in grad school, a fellow student told me that
mispronunciation is common, which might be true, and that I do it,
which is obviously false. I do type "pronounciation" at time
s
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Jerry Friedman
and have to correct it.
The ou ~ u alternation is standard: abound/abundance, profound/profundity,
etc.
A native example is south/southerly, southern (formerly sutherne), according
to Wikipedia.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
It's part of the pattern that Chomsky & Halle call "trisyllabic laxing," along
with divine/divinity, sane/sanity, serene/serenity, etc.
Myopic/myopia, dystonic/dystonia... wait a second.
--
Jerry Friedman
Blow the wind southerly, southerly, southerly...
Ross Clark
2021-03-16 10:33:38 UTC
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Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Tony Cooper
https://petapixel.com/2021/03/13/how-to-pronounce-german-camera-and-lens-brands-correctly/
will not have much interest to most people here because it deals with
pronouncing items (German camera bodies and lenses) with German names
properly. Only a very few of the items will be recognizable by most.
I do have a question, though. At about 50 seconds into this, the
speaker says the word "pronounciation" as "pro-nownce-ee-ation". I
think he says it the same in other place later in the video.
He was obviously referring to the ciation of pronouns.
Post by Tony Cooper
I say that word as "pro-nunce-ee-ation.
I have heard the "pro-nownce-ee-ation" pronunciation from others, and
it's alway bothered me.
Is the speaker's pronunciation common for others?
When I was in grad school, a fellow student told me that
mispronunciation is common, which might be true, and that I do it,
which is obviously false. I do type "pronounciation" at time and have
to correct it.
The ou ~ u alternation is standard: abound/abundance, profound/profundity,
etc. It's part of the pattern that Chomsky & Halle call "trisyllabic laxing," along
with divine/divinity, sane/sanity, serene/serenity, etc.
Which means that, if English speakers' phonology were actually organized
in the way Chomsky & Halle proposed, nobody should say "pronounciation".
In fact, however, many people do. Conclusions are left as an exercise
for the student.
s***@my-deja.com
2021-03-16 10:52:33 UTC
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Post by Ross Clark
Which means that, if English speakers' phonology were actually organized
in the way Chomsky & Halle proposed, nobody should say "pronounciation".
In fact, however, many people do. Conclusions are left as an exercise
for the student.
What about the main point of the video - that German brand names should
be pronounced as in German?

Lidl to rhyme with middle or with needle?

That idea would demolish all the English language names of many Italian cities
A good idea?
Kerr-Mudd,John
2021-03-16 11:07:47 UTC
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Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by Ross Clark
Which means that, if English speakers' phonology were actually
organized in the way Chomsky & Halle proposed, nobody should say
"pronounciation". In fact, however, many people do. Conclusions are
left as an exercise for the student.
What about the main point of the video - that German brand names
should be pronounced as in German?
Lidl to rhyme with middle or with needle?
or LieDl?
Maybe they'll have a cooking special; one could get a Ladle from Lidl.

All Die or Al Dae?
Post by s***@my-deja.com
That idea would demolish all the English language names of many Italian cities
A good idea?
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Adam Funk
2021-03-16 11:10:57 UTC
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Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Tony Cooper
https://petapixel.com/2021/03/13/how-to-pronounce-german-camera-and-lens-brands-correctly/
will not have much interest to most people here because it deals with
pronouncing items (German camera bodies and lenses) with German names
properly. Only a very few of the items will be recognizable by most.
I do have a question, though. At about 50 seconds into this, the
speaker says the word "pronounciation" as "pro-nownce-ee-ation". I
think he says it the same in other place later in the video.
He was obviously referring to the ciation of pronouns.
Post by Tony Cooper
I say that word as "pro-nunce-ee-ation.
I have heard the "pro-nownce-ee-ation" pronunciation from others, and
it's alway bothered me.
Is the speaker's pronunciation common for others?
When I was in grad school, a fellow student told me that
mispronunciation is common, which might be true, and that I do it,
which is obviously false. I do type "pronounciation" at time and have
to correct it.
The ou ~ u alternation is standard: abound/abundance, profound/profundity,
etc. It's part of the pattern that Chomsky & Halle call "trisyllabic laxing," along
with divine/divinity, sane/sanity, serene/serenity, etc.
Which means that, if English speakers' phonology were actually organized
in the way Chomsky & Halle proposed, nobody should say "pronounciation".
In fact, however, many people do. Conclusions are left as an exercise
for the student.
Hypercorrection or something similar?
--
When Chayefsky created Howard Beale, could he have imagined
Jerry Springer, Howard Stern, and the World Wrestling
Federation? ---Roger Ebert
Graham
2021-03-15 17:35:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
https://petapixel.com/2021/03/13/how-to-pronounce-german-camera-and-lens-brands-correctly/
will not have much interest to most people here because it deals with
pronouncing items (German camera bodies and lenses) with German names
properly. Only a very few of the items will be recognizable by most.
I do have a question, though. At about 50 seconds into this, the
speaker says the word "pronounciation" as "pro-nownce-ee-ation". I
think he says it the same in other place later in the video.
I say that word as "pro-nunce-ee-ation.
I have heard the "pro-nownce-ee-ation" pronunciation from others, and
it's alway bothered me.
Is the speaker's pronunciation common for others?
I haven't heard that but I have heard Canadians and Americans say
"sowthern" for southern.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-03-15 17:39:42 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
https://petapixel.com/2021/03/13/how-to-pronounce-german-camera-and-lens-brands-correctly/
will not have much interest to most people here because it deals with
pronouncing items (German camera bodies and lenses) with German names
properly. Only a very few of the items will be recognizable by most.
I do have a question, though. At about 50 seconds into this, the
speaker says the word "pronounciation" as "pro-nownce-ee-ation". I
think he says it the same in other place later in the video.
I say that word as "pro-nunce-ee-ation.
I have heard the "pro-nownce-ee-ation" pronunciation from others, and
it's alway bothered me.
Is the speaker's pronunciation common for others?
More common than one might wish! One also sometimes sees it spelt
"pronounciation"
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
Rich Ulrich
2021-03-15 19:19:40 UTC
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On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 18:39:42 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Tony Cooper
https://petapixel.com/2021/03/13/how-to-pronounce-german-camera-and-lens-brands-correctly/
will not have much interest to most people here because it deals with
pronouncing items (German camera bodies and lenses) with German names
properly. Only a very few of the items will be recognizable by most.
I do have a question, though. At about 50 seconds into this, the
speaker says the word "pronounciation" as "pro-nownce-ee-ation". I
think he says it the same in other place later in the video.
I say that word as "pro-nunce-ee-ation.
I have heard the "pro-nownce-ee-ation" pronunciation from others, and
it's alway bothered me.
Is the speaker's pronunciation common for others?
More common than one might wish! One also sometimes sees it spelt
"pronounciation"
Yes, too common and I've seen it spelt that way.

Google Ngrams shows the spelling to be very rare (books).
--
Rich Ulrich
Tony Cooper
2021-03-15 19:23:37 UTC
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On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 15:19:40 -0400, Rich Ulrich
Post by Rich Ulrich
On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 18:39:42 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Tony Cooper
https://petapixel.com/2021/03/13/how-to-pronounce-german-camera-and-lens-brands-correctly/
will not have much interest to most people here because it deals with
pronouncing items (German camera bodies and lenses) with German names
properly. Only a very few of the items will be recognizable by most.
I do have a question, though. At about 50 seconds into this, the
speaker says the word "pronounciation" as "pro-nownce-ee-ation". I
think he says it the same in other place later in the video.
I say that word as "pro-nunce-ee-ation.
I have heard the "pro-nownce-ee-ation" pronunciation from others, and
it's alway bothered me.
Is the speaker's pronunciation common for others?
More common than one might wish! One also sometimes sees it spelt
"pronounciation"
Yes, too common and I've seen it spelt that way.
Google Ngrams shows the spelling to be very rare (books).
I'll say this once to answer all who noticed it:

I made a typo and spelled pronunciation once incorrectly.
--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-03-15 19:27:57 UTC
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Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 15:19:40 -0400, Rich Ulrich
Post by Rich Ulrich
On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 18:39:42 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Tony Cooper
https://petapixel.com/2021/03/13/how-to-pronounce-german-camera-and-lens-brands-correctly/
will not have much interest to most people here because it deals with
pronouncing items (German camera bodies and lenses) with German names
properly. Only a very few of the items will be recognizable by most.
I do have a question, though. At about 50 seconds into this, the
speaker says the word "pronounciation" as "pro-nownce-ee-ation". I
think he says it the same in other place later in the video.
I say that word as "pro-nunce-ee-ation.
I have heard the "pro-nownce-ee-ation" pronunciation from others, and
it's alway bothered me.
Is the speaker's pronunciation common for others?
More common than one might wish! One also sometimes sees it spelt
"pronounciation"
Yes, too common and I've seen it spelt that way.
Google Ngrams shows the spelling to be very rare (books).
I made a typo and spelled pronunciation once incorrectly.
Yes, I noticed, but in this group we (most of us) only draw attention
to our own typos, not to other people's.
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
Peter T. Daniels
2021-03-15 21:26:54 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Tony Cooper
I made a typo and spelled pronunciation once incorrectly.
Yes, I noticed, but in this group we (most of us) only draw attention
to our own typos, not to other people's.
TC isn't part of that "we." I gave him the opportunity to bitch about
my all-caps response -- but all he did was quote the one line that
had an obvious self-correcting typo and call attention to it.

"Pronounciation" is a natural product of fingers that are accustomed
to touch-typing and access "frequency tables" in the memory.
Peter Moylan
2021-03-15 21:05:12 UTC
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Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 15:19:40 -0400, Rich Ulrich
Post by Rich Ulrich
On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 18:39:42 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Tony Cooper
https://petapixel.com/2021/03/13/how-to-pronounce-german-camera-and-lens-brands-correctly/
will not have much interest to most people here because it deals with
pronouncing items (German camera bodies and lenses) with German names
properly. Only a very few of the items will be recognizable by most.
I do have a question, though. At about 50 seconds into this, the
speaker says the word "pronounciation" as "pro-nownce-ee-ation". I
think he says it the same in other place later in the video.
I say that word as "pro-nunce-ee-ation.
I have heard the "pro-nownce-ee-ation" pronunciation from others, and
it's alway bothered me.
Is the speaker's pronunciation common for others?
More common than one might wish! One also sometimes sees it spelt
"pronounciation"
Yes, too common and I've seen it spelt that way.
Google Ngrams shows the spelling to be very rare (books).
I made a typo and spelled pronunciation once incorrectly.
I noticed, but thought it was deliberate.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Lewis
2021-03-15 19:28:53 UTC
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Post by Tony Cooper
https://petapixel.com/2021/03/13/how-to-pronounce-german-camera-and-lens-brands-correctly/
will not have much interest to most people here because it deals with
pronouncing items (German camera bodies and lenses) with German names
properly. Only a very few of the items will be recognizable by most.
I do have a question, though. At about 50 seconds into this, the
speaker says the word "pronounciation" as "pro-nownce-ee-ation". I
think he says it the same in other place later in the video.
I say that word as "pro-nunce-ee-ation.
I have heard the "pro-nownce-ee-ation" pronunciation from others, and
it's alway bothered me.
Is the speaker's pronunciation common for others?
I hear both, never bothered by either one, but I use the same one you
do.

The one currently bothering me is people who say "wizened" as
"wise-end".
--
There are bad people on both sides
Graham
2021-03-15 22:46:34 UTC
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Post by Lewis
I hear both, never bothered by either one, but I use the same one you
do.
The one currently bothering me is people who say "wizened" as
"wise-end".
That's an example of the current fashion of vowel-lengthening.
Another mis-pronunciation is "sh" for "ch".
I've heard "shintz" for "chintz" but the best example, which combines
both "sh" and vowel lengthening was someone on the CBC saying:
"Grinning like a Sheshyre Cat!"
Lewis
2021-03-16 09:43:22 UTC
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Post by Graham
Post by Lewis
I hear both, never bothered by either one, but I use the same one you
do.
The one currently bothering me is people who say "wizened" as
"wise-end".
That's an example of the current fashion of vowel-lengthening.
Maybe, or maybe it's people thinking it means "wise" and not "old and
wrinkled".
Post by Graham
Another mis-pronunciation is "sh" for "ch".
I've heard "shintz" for "chintz" but the best example, which combines
"Grinning like a Sheshyre Cat!"
Which CBC? Canadian? They might have though they were sounding like
posh Brits?
--
'You make us want what we can't have and what you give us is worth
nothing and what you take is everything and all there is left for
us is the cold hillside, and emptiness, and the laughter of the
elves.'
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