Discussion:
colour vs. color
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bruce bowser
2021-03-23 10:18:22 UTC
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Do you find either spelling particularly wrong or correct? If so, do you have any preferences?
Kerr-Mudd,John
2021-03-23 10:32:24 UTC
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Post by bruce bowser
Do you find either spelling particularly wrong or correct? If so, do
you have any preferences?
spell it 'kulur'. Simples!
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Dingbat
2021-03-25 19:50:13 UTC
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Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by bruce bowser
Do you find either spelling particularly wrong or correct? If so, do
you have any preferences?
spell it 'kulur'. Simples!
kultur is not the same as culture, in English.
Kerr-Mudd,John
2021-03-25 20:31:52 UTC
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Post by Dingbat
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by bruce bowser
Do you find either spelling particularly wrong or correct? If so, do
you have any preferences?
spell it 'kulur'. Simples!
kultur is not the same as culture, in English.
Haute!
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Peter Moylan
2021-03-25 23:52:40 UTC
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On Tuesday, March 23, 2021 at 3:32:29 AM UTC-7, Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 10:18:22 GMT, bruce bowser
Post by bruce bowser
Do you find either spelling particularly wrong or correct? If so,
do you have any preferences?
spell it 'kulur'. Simples!
kultur is not the same as culture, in English.
When I was an undergraduate we had to do a compulsory subject that
consisted of a choice from rhetoric, life drawing, music appreciation,
and (something else I've forgotten). Everyone called the subject "Kulcha".
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
musika
2021-03-26 00:55:00 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Dingbat
On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 10:18:22 GMT, bruce bowser
Post by bruce bowser
Do you find either spelling particularly wrong or correct? If
so, do you have any preferences?
spell it 'kulur'. Simples!
kultur is not the same as culture, in English.
When I was an undergraduate we had to do a compulsory subject that
consisted of a choice from rhetoric, life drawing, music
appreciation, and (something else I've forgotten). Everyone called
the subject "Kulcha".
We'll have naan of that.
--
Ray
UK
Peter T. Daniels
2021-03-26 15:12:50 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Dingbat
On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 10:18:22 GMT, bruce bowser
Post by bruce bowser
Do you find either spelling particularly wrong or correct? If so,
do you have any preferences?
spell it 'kulur'. Simples!
kultur is not the same as culture, in English.
When I was an undergraduate we had to do a compulsory subject that
consisted of a choice from rhetoric, life drawing, music appreciation,
and (something else I've forgotten). Everyone called the subject "Kulcha".
Cornell had "distribution requirements." You had to do six credits (two
semesters) of a Humanity, a Social Science, a Hard Science, and a
Math-or-something else (I don't remember what the something else
was) and there was a Fine Art in there somewhere. All your choices
except Rhetoric would be Fine Arts. (I did six semesters of Sage Chapel
Choir: one credit per semester, and the grade was based solely on attendance.
Also six credits of "Freshman Humanities," chosen from a very wide palette.

In order, I did History of Architecture, Linjguistics, Astronomy, [and I suppose
Fine Art was the alternative to Math?]. My FHs were "German Expressionist
Drama in translation" and -- oh, dear, I don't remember the second one! I
suppose the selection depended on the interests of the grad students who
were available each semester to teach them.

At Columbia there's something called the Common Core, where every
freshperson takes the same array of Western Civ and Other (and the
"Other" part is rather recent).
bruce bowser
2021-03-26 20:46:09 UTC
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Post by Dingbat
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by bruce bowser
Do you find either spelling particularly wrong or correct? If so, do
you have any preferences?
spell it 'kulur'. Simples!
kultur is not the same as culture, in English.
Says who? In a german english dictionary, the german word: kultur is culture in english. In a dutch english dictionary, the dutch word: cultuur is culture in english.
Stefan Ram
2021-03-26 21:04:21 UTC
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Post by bruce bowser
In a german english dictionary, the german word: kultur is culture in english.
As in most such cases, it depends on the context.
Sometimes, "Kultur" is "culture". Sometimes, it is not.

abendländische Kultur - western civilization
Kulturbeutel - toiletries bag
Austernzucht - oyster culture
gebildeter Mann - man of culture
Peter T. Daniels
2021-03-26 21:45:45 UTC
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Post by Dingbat
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by bruce bowser
Do you find either spelling particularly wrong or correct? If so, do
you have any preferences?
spell it 'kulur'. Simples!
kultur is not the same as culture, in English.
Says who? In a german english dictionary, the german word: kultur
cultuur is culture in english.
Dictionaries rarely explain how words are used, bilingual dictionaries
least of all (where it's most needed).

The St. Louisian's boast "Far enough south to be cultured, far enough
north not to be hick" probably can't be rendered in German using the
word "Kultur."
J. J. Lodder
2021-03-23 10:52:53 UTC
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Post by bruce bowser
Do you find either spelling particularly wrong or correct?
If so, do you have any preferences?
It is the best example ever of how NOT to do a spelling reform,

Jan
Janet
2021-03-23 11:48:04 UTC
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Post by bruce bowser
Do you find either spelling particularly wrong or correct?
If so, do you have any preferences?
I think we should all choose our own

Lyme Grean.
Lewis
2021-03-23 14:47:02 UTC
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Post by Janet
Post by bruce bowser
Do you find either spelling particularly wrong or correct?
If so, do you have any preferences?
The bolour supplement.
Post by Janet
I think we should all choose our own
Lyme Grean.
Greene, Shirley!
--
Mom: There was more than one lobster present at the birth of Jesus?
Daughter: Duh.
Kerr-Mudd,John
2021-03-23 16:21:21 UTC
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Post by Lewis
Post by Janet
Post by bruce bowser
Do you find either spelling particularly wrong or correct?
If so, do you have any preferences?
The bolour supplement.
What's the point on being herded into busses going the hotel
Bontinental...
Post by Lewis
Post by Janet
I think we should all choose our own
Lyme Grean.
Greene, Shirley!
Soilent Movie at 10.
Bone apper tite!
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
CDB
2021-03-23 13:25:36 UTC
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Post by bruce bowser
Do you find either spelling particularly wrong or correct?
No.
Post by bruce bowser
If so, do you have any preferences?
Yes. And I really think you should have said "if not". If I found one
spelling particularly wrong, it would be incorrect of me to prefer it.
Quinn C
2021-03-23 14:22:02 UTC
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Post by CDB
Post by bruce bowser
Do you find either spelling particularly wrong or correct?
No.
Post by bruce bowser
If so, do you have any preferences?
Yes. And I really think you should have said "if not". If I found one
spelling particularly wrong, it would be incorrect of me to prefer it.
You underestimate human complexity.
--
The need of a personal pronoun of the singular number and common
gender is so desperate, urgent, imperative, that ... it should long
since have grown on our speech -- The Atlantic Monthly (1878)
CDB
2021-03-24 12:57:15 UTC
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Post by Quinn C
Post by CDB
Post by bruce bowser
Do you find either spelling particularly wrong or correct?
No.
Post by bruce bowser
If so, do you have any preferences?
Yes. And I really think you should have said "if not". If I found
one spelling particularly wrong, it would be incorrect of me to
prefer it.
You underestimate human complexity.
You never know, you know.
Garrett Wollman
2021-03-23 15:51:16 UTC
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Post by bruce bowser
Do you find either spelling particularly wrong or correct?
No. They're different dialects.

I do find it particularly irritating when a retail business uses a
nonstandard-for-the-local-dialect spelling for pretentiousness -- a
couple of decades ago there was a veritable plague of shopping malls
calling themselves "Something-or-other Centre" because that's the
British spelling and everyone knows the Brits are classier. The only
recent example I can think of is the sports apparel comany Under
Armour, which I've read the story about.

I'm sufficiently accustomed to reading material intended for the
"global English ex-US" market that I rarely notice the spelling
differences. Vocabulary differences, on the other hand, I do still
notice, even when the intended meaning is clear and familiar to me. I
would guess that the same is true of most middle-class Americans, now
that the Internet has brought not only written material but radio and
television programs (other than costume dramas and 1980s sitcoms) from
other countries.

-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | "Act to avoid constraining the future; if you can,
***@bimajority.org| act to remove constraint from the future. This is
Opinions not shared by| a thing you can do, are able to do, to do together."
my employers. | - Graydon Saunders, _A Succession of Bad Days_ (2015)
s***@my-deja.com
2021-03-23 16:07:44 UTC
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Permalink
Post by bruce bowser
Do you find either spelling particularly wrong or correct?
No. They're different dialects.
I do find it particularly irritating when a retail business uses a
nonstandard-for-the-local-dialect spelling for pretentiousness -- a
couple of decades ago there was a veritable plague of shopping malls
calling themselves "Something-or-other Centre" because that's the
British spelling and everyone knows the Brits are classier. The only
recent example I can think of is the sports apparel company Under
Armour, which I've read the story about.
I'm sufficiently accustomed to reading material intended for the
"global English ex-US" market that I rarely notice the spelling
differences. Vocabulary differences, on the other hand, I do still
notice, even when the intended meaning is clear and familiar to me. I
would guess that the same is true of most middle-class Americans, now
that the Internet has brought not only written material but radio and
television programs (other than costume dramas and 1980s sitcoms) from
other countries.
"Plumb Center" is/was the same situation in reverse.
Kerr-Mudd,John
2021-03-23 16:22:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by bruce bowser
Do you find either spelling particularly wrong or correct?
No. They're different dialects.
I do find it particularly irritating when a retail business uses a
nonstandard-for-the-local-dialect spelling for pretentiousness -- a
couple of decades ago there was a veritable plague of shopping malls
calling themselves "Something-or-other Centre" because that's the
British spelling and everyone knows the Brits are classier. The only
recent example I can think of is the sports apparel company Under
Armour, which I've read the story about.
I'm sufficiently accustomed to reading material intended for the
"global English ex-US" market that I rarely notice the spelling
differences. Vocabulary differences, on the other hand, I do still
notice, even when the intended meaning is clear and familiar to me. I
would guess that the same is true of most middle-class Americans, now
that the Internet has brought not only written material but radio and
television programs (other than costume dramas and 1980s sitcoms) from
other countries.
"Plumb Center" is/was the same situation in reverse.
Possibly done before: "Computacenter"
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Jerry Friedman
2021-03-23 17:28:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by bruce bowser
Do you find either spelling particularly wrong or correct?
No. They're different dialects.
I do find it particularly irritating when a retail business uses a
nonstandard-for-the-local-dialect spelling for pretentiousness -- a
couple of decades ago there was a veritable plague of shopping malls
calling themselves "Something-or-other Centre" because that's the
British spelling and everyone knows the Brits are classier. The only
recent example I can think of is the sports apparel company Under
Armour, which I've read the story about.
I'm sufficiently accustomed to reading material intended for the
"global English ex-US" market that I rarely notice the spelling
differences. Vocabulary differences, on the other hand, I do still
notice, even when the intended meaning is clear and familiar to me. I
would guess that the same is true of most middle-class Americans, now
that the Internet has brought not only written material but radio and
television programs (other than costume dramas and 1980s sitcoms) from
other countries.
"Plumb Center" is/was the same situation in reverse.
Possibly done before: "Computacenter"
What was wrong with "Computacenta"?
--
Jerry Friedman
Dingbat
2021-03-26 07:31:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by bruce bowser
Do you find either spelling particularly wrong or correct?
No. They're different dialects.
I do find it particularly irritating when a retail business uses a
nonstandard-for-the-local-dialect spelling for pretentiousness -- a
couple of decades ago there was a veritable plague of shopping malls
calling themselves "Something-or-other Centre" because that's the
British spelling and everyone knows the Brits are classier. The only
recent example I can think of is the sports apparel company Under
Armour, which I've read the story about.
I'm sufficiently accustomed to reading material intended for the
"global English ex-US" market that I rarely notice the spelling
differences. Vocabulary differences, on the other hand, I do still
notice, even when the intended meaning is clear and familiar to me. I
would guess that the same is true of most middle-class Americans, now
that the Internet has brought not only written material but radio and
television programs (other than costume dramas and 1980s sitcoms) from
other countries.
"Plumb Center" is/was the same situation in reverse.
Possibly done before: "Computacenter"
What was wrong with "Computacenta"?
It should've been respelled as Compudasenna:-)
musika
2021-03-26 07:55:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dingbat
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by s***@my-deja.com
"Plumb Center" is/was the same situation in reverse.
Possibly done before: "Computacenter"
What was wrong with "Computacenta"?
It should've been respelled as Compudasenna:-)
No, we don't talk like that in Britain.
--
Ray
UK
bruce bowser
2021-03-26 10:26:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by musika
Post by Dingbat
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by s***@my-deja.com
"Plumb Center" is/was the same situation in reverse.
Possibly done before: "Computacenter"
What was wrong with "Computacenta"?
It should've been respelled as Compudasenna:-)
No, we don't talk like that in Britain.
With all the people there from the northestern United States? That's tough to believe.
musika
2021-03-26 11:12:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by bruce bowser
Post by musika
Post by Dingbat
On Tuesday, March 23, 2021 at 10:22:45 AM UTC-6,
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by s***@my-deja.com
"Plumb Center" is/was the same situation in reverse.
Possibly done before: "Computacenter"
What was wrong with "Computacenta"?
It should've been respelled as Compudasenna:-)
No, we don't talk like that in Britain.
With all the people there from the northestern United States? That's tough to believe.
I've never met one. On the other hand my "we" meant Brits not Yanks.
Where are all these northestern Americans you speak of?
--
Ray
UK
bruce bowser
2021-03-26 15:07:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by musika
Post by musika
Post by Dingbat
On Tuesday, March 23, 2021 at 10:22:45 AM UTC-6,
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by s***@my-deja.com
"Plumb Center" is/was the same situation in reverse.
Possibly done before: "Computacenter"
What was wrong with "Computacenta"?
It should've been respelled as Compudasenna:-)
No, we don't talk like that in Britain.
With all the people there from the northestern United States? That's
tough to believe.
I've never met one. On the other hand my "we" meant Brits not Yanks.
Where are all these northestern Americans you speak of?
So few, so few, so very very few people that enter urban areas. Even in the UK, apparently. You, who are out in the countryside?
musika
2021-03-26 15:17:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by bruce bowser
Post by musika
Post by bruce bowser
Post by musika
On Tuesday, March 23, 2021 at 10:28:26 AM UTC-7, Jerry
On Tuesday, March 23, 2021 at 10:22:45 AM UTC-6,
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by s***@my-deja.com
"Plumb Center" is/was the same situation in reverse.
Possibly done before: "Computacenter"
What was wrong with "Computacenta"?
It should've been respelled as Compudasenna:-)
No, we don't talk like that in Britain.
With all the people there from the northestern United States?
That's tough to believe.
I've never met one. On the other hand my "we" meant Brits not
Yanks. Where are all these northestern Americans you speak of?
So few, so few, so very very few people that enter urban areas. Even
in the UK, apparently. You, who are out in the countryside?
Far from it!
--
Ray
UK
Peter Moylan
2021-03-27 00:49:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by bruce bowser
Post by musika
Post by bruce bowser
Post by musika
No, we don't talk like that in Britain.
With all the people there from the northestern United States?
That's tough to believe.
I've never met one. On the other hand my "we" meant Brits not
Yanks. Where are all these northestern Americans you speak of?
So few, so few, so very very few people that enter urban areas. Even
in the UK, apparently. You, who are out in the countryside?
I'm getting a mental picture of a whole lot of north-eastern Americans
scattered through rural Britain, so discreetly that the British people
are unaware of them.

In the spy world those are known as "sleepers".
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2021-03-27 13:06:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sat, 27 Mar 2021 11:49:19 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by bruce bowser
Post by musika
Post by bruce bowser
Post by musika
No, we don't talk like that in Britain.
With all the people there from the northestern United States?
That's tough to believe.
I've never met one. On the other hand my "we" meant Brits not
Yanks. Where are all these northestern Americans you speak of?
So few, so few, so very very few people that enter urban areas. Even
in the UK, apparently. You, who are out in the countryside?
I'm getting a mental picture of a whole lot of north-eastern Americans
scattered through rural Britain, so discreetly that the British people
are unaware of them.
In the spy world those are known as "sleepers".
Perhaps they are "hiding in plain sight" s scarecrows.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Sam Plusnet
2021-03-27 20:46:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by musika
Post by bruce bowser
Post by musika
No, we don't talk like that in Britain.
With all the people there from the northestern United States?
That's tough to believe.
I've never met one. On the other hand my "we" meant Brits not
Yanks. Where are all these northestern Americans you speak of?
So few, so few, so very very few people that enter urban areas.  Even
in the UK, apparently. You, who are out in the countryside?
I'm getting a mental picture of a whole lot of north-eastern Americans
scattered through rural Britain, so discreetly that the British people
are unaware of them.
In the spy world those are known as "sleepers".
Also, why has the North East of the US been stripped of its population
in pursuance of this dastardly scheme? Did they all volunteer, or were
they pushed?
--
Sam Plusnet
Wales, UK
Peter Moylan
2021-03-27 23:17:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by bruce bowser
Post by musika
Post by bruce bowser
Post by musika
No, we don't talk like that in Britain.
With all the people there from the northestern United
States? That's tough to believe.
I've never met one. On the other hand my "we" meant Brits not
Yanks. Where are all these northestern Americans you speak of?
So few, so few, so very very few people that enter urban areas.
Even in the UK, apparently. You, who are out in the countryside?
I'm getting a mental picture of a whole lot of north-eastern
Americans scattered through rural Britain, so discreetly that the
British people are unaware of them.
In the spy world those are known as "sleepers".
Also, why has the North East of the US been stripped of its
population in pursuance of this dastardly scheme? Did they all
volunteer, or were they pushed?
It wouldn't be such a bad life, though. American spies have it easy. Not
like the Russian spies, who are forever wondering when Putin is going to
poison them.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Quinn C
2021-03-26 17:59:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by musika
Post by bruce bowser
Post by musika
Post by Dingbat
On Tuesday, March 23, 2021 at 10:22:45 AM UTC-6,
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by s***@my-deja.com
"Plumb Center" is/was the same situation in reverse.
Possibly done before: "Computacenter"
What was wrong with "Computacenta"?
It should've been respelled as Compudasenna:-)
No, we don't talk like that in Britain.
With all the people there from the northestern United States? That's tough to believe.
I've never met one. On the other hand my "we" meant Brits not Yanks.
Where are all these northestern Americans you speak of?
Someone still thinks that New England is part of Britain?
--
Some things are taken away from you, some you leave behind-and
some you carry with you, world without end.
-- Robert C. Wilson, Vortex (novel), p.31
musika
2021-03-26 18:36:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
Post by musika
Post by bruce bowser
Post by musika
On Tuesday, March 23, 2021 at 10:28:26 AM UTC-7, Jerry
On Tuesday, March 23, 2021 at 10:22:45 AM UTC-6,
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by s***@my-deja.com
"Plumb Center" is/was the same situation in reverse.
Possibly done before: "Computacenter"
What was wrong with "Computacenta"?
It should've been respelled as Compudasenna:-)
No, we don't talk like that in Britain.
With all the people there from the northestern United States?
That's tough to believe.
I've never met one. On the other hand my "we" meant Brits not
Yanks. Where are all these northestern Americans you speak of?
Someone still thinks that New England is part of Britain?
Well, I still don't know if he left out a "w" or an "a".
--
Ray
UK
Quinn C
2021-03-26 22:01:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by musika
Post by Quinn C
Post by musika
Post by bruce bowser
Post by musika
On Tuesday, March 23, 2021 at 10:28:26 AM UTC-7, Jerry
On Tuesday, March 23, 2021 at 10:22:45 AM UTC-6,
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by s***@my-deja.com
"Plumb Center" is/was the same situation in reverse.
Possibly done before: "Computacenter"
What was wrong with "Computacenta"?
It should've been respelled as Compudasenna:-)
No, we don't talk like that in Britain.
With all the people there from the northestern United States?
That's tough to believe.
I've never met one. On the other hand my "we" meant Brits not
Yanks. Where are all these northestern Americans you speak of?
Someone still thinks that New England is part of Britain?
Well, I still don't know if he left out a "w" or an "a".
Ah, good point - my unconscious had made the decision for me.
--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)
Peter Moylan
2021-03-27 00:53:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by musika
Post by Quinn C
Post by musika
Post by bruce bowser
Post by musika
No, we don't talk like that in Britain.
With all the people there from the northestern United States?
That's tough to believe.
I've never met one. On the other hand my "we" meant Brits not
Yanks. Where are all these northestern Americans you speak of?
Someone still thinks that New England is part of Britain?
Well, I still don't know if he left out a "w" or an "a".
Hmm, that changes the picture a little. But the people who phone me from
Microsoft usually have Indian accents.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-03-27 11:01:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by musika
Post by Quinn C
Post by musika
Post by bruce bowser
Post by musika
No, we don't talk like that in Britain.
With all the people there from the northestern United States?
That's tough to believe.
I've never met one. On the other hand my "we" meant Brits not
Yanks. Where are all these northestern Americans you speak of?
Someone still thinks that New England is part of Britain?
Well, I still don't know if he left out a "w" or an "a".
Hmm, that changes the picture a little. But the people who phone me
from Microsoft usually have Indian accents.
The lady who phones me from Liberia about Orange Telecom (as recently
as yesterday) speaks French pretty well -- not exactly Parisian, but
not what I'd expect in the unlikely event that I met a Francophone
Liberian. Liberia has borders with Côte d'Ivoire and Guinée, but
Monrovia is a long way from both.
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
J. J. Lodder
2021-03-27 16:33:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by musika
Post by Quinn C
Post by musika
Post by bruce bowser
Post by musika
No, we don't talk like that in Britain.
With all the people there from the northestern United States?
That's tough to believe.
I've never met one. On the other hand my "we" meant Brits not
Yanks. Where are all these northestern Americans you speak of?
Someone still thinks that New England is part of Britain?
Well, I still don't know if he left out a "w" or an "a".
Hmm, that changes the picture a little. But the people who phone me
from Microsoft usually have Indian accents.
The lady who phones me from Liberia about Orange Telecom (as recently
as yesterday) speaks French pretty well -- not exactly Parisian, but
not what I'd expect in the unlikely event that I met a Francophone
Liberian. Liberia has borders with Côte d'Ivoire and Guinée, but
Monrovia is a long way from both.
A lot of French call centres are in l'Afrique Francophone.
It's easy now, with satellite communications,
and much cheaper than siting them in France,

Jan
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-03-27 16:38:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by musika
Post by Quinn C
Post by musika
Post by bruce bowser
Post by musika
No, we don't talk like that in Britain.
With all the people there from the northestern United States?
That's tough to believe.
I've never met one. On the other hand my "we" meant Brits not
Yanks. Where are all these northestern Americans you speak of?
Someone still thinks that New England is part of Britain?
Well, I still don't know if he left out a "w" or an "a".
Hmm, that changes the picture a little. But the people who phone me
from Microsoft usually have Indian accents.
The lady who phones me from Liberia about Orange Telecom (as recently
as yesterday) speaks French pretty well -- not exactly Parisian, but
not what I'd expect in the unlikely event that I met a Francophone
Liberian. Liberia has borders with Côte d'Ivoire and Guinée, but
Monrovia is a long way from both.
A lot of French call centres are in l'Afrique Francophone.
It's easy now, with satellite communications,
and much cheaper than siting them in France,
Yes, but most of the calls we get come from people with accents from
the Maghreb, which tend to be quite different from ones from the other
side of the Sahara.
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
Peter T. Daniels
2021-03-27 14:42:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Hmm, that changes the picture a little. But the people who phone me from
Microsoft usually have Indian accents.
The people who phone me with Indian accents offer American names.

But they are not claiming to represent Microsoft. Most recently it's been
some solar-energy scam.
Jerry Friedman
2021-03-27 01:53:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by musika
Post by Quinn C
Post by musika
Post by bruce bowser
Post by musika
On Tuesday, March 23, 2021 at 10:28:26 AM UTC-7, Jerry
On Tuesday, March 23, 2021 at 10:22:45 AM UTC-6,
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by s***@my-deja.com
"Plumb Center" is/was the same situation in reverse.
Possibly done before: "Computacenter"
What was wrong with "Computacenta"?
It should've been respelled as Compudasenna:-)
No, we don't talk like that in Britain.
With all the people there from the northestern United States?
That's tough to believe.
I've never met one. On the other hand my "we" meant Brits not
Yanks. Where are all these northestern Americans you speak of?
Someone still thinks that New England is part of Britain?
Well, I still don't know if he left out a "w" or an "a".
In the Great Northwest they might say "Compudercenner" (which isn't
all that far from what I say, though I've never lived up there).
--
Jerry Friedman
Dingbat
2021-03-27 22:55:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by musika
Post by Dingbat
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by s***@my-deja.com
"Plumb Center" is/was the same situation in reverse.
If the center of town has the highest priced real estate, that would
make it the "plum center", what? I used "plumb loco", supposedly an
American usage, but didn't find any Americans using it.
Post by musika
Post by Dingbat
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Possibly done before: "Computacenter"
What was wrong with "Computacenta"?
It should've been respelled as Compudasenna:-)
No, we don't talk like that in Britain.
They do in the US. When someone said what sounded
like "prinner", it took me a while to register that they
meant "printer".
charles
2021-03-23 16:45:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Garrett Wollman
Post by bruce bowser
Do you find either spelling particularly wrong or correct?
No. They're different dialects.
I do find it particularly irritating when a retail business uses a
nonstandard-for-the-local-dialect spelling for pretentiousness -- a
couple of decades ago there was a veritable plague of shopping malls
calling themselves "Something-or-other Centre" because that's the
British spelling and everyone knows the Brits are classier.
In London, in tehn70s & early 80s, we had the ground (first) floor of our
office building telling us it was the "US Government Trade Center".
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Tony Cooper
2021-03-23 17:07:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Garrett Wollman
Post by bruce bowser
Do you find either spelling particularly wrong or correct?
No. They're different dialects.
I do find it particularly irritating when a retail business uses a
nonstandard-for-the-local-dialect spelling for pretentiousness -- a
couple of decades ago there was a veritable plague of shopping malls
calling themselves "Something-or-other Centre" because that's the
British spelling and everyone knows the Brits are classier. The only
recent example I can think of is the sports apparel comany Under
Armour, which I've read the story about.
A shopping center/centre in the US may have movie theater/theatre as
part of it.
--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida
Quinn C
2021-03-23 17:11:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Garrett Wollman
Post by bruce bowser
Do you find either spelling particularly wrong or correct?
No. They're different dialects.
I do find it particularly irritating when a retail business uses a
nonstandard-for-the-local-dialect spelling for pretentiousness -- a
couple of decades ago there was a veritable plague of shopping malls
calling themselves "Something-or-other Centre" because that's the
British spelling and everyone knows the Brits are classier. The only
recent example I can think of is the sports apparel comany Under
Armour, which I've read the story about.
What about "theatre"? Almost all the institutions, professional
organizations etc. use that spelling in their names.

Can't be easy to keep a page like this straight:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_theater_in_the_United_States>

By the way:
| The term regional theatre most often refers to a professional theatre
| outside New York City.

Whoa! Really? Chicago or LA as reginoal as Poughkeepsie in this case?
--
Bring home one dismembered body part, once, mind you, once,
and people get twitchy about checking your luggage ever after.
-- Vicereine Cordelia
in L. McMaster Bujold, Gentleman Jole and the Red Queen
Jerry Friedman
2021-03-23 17:57:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
Post by Garrett Wollman
Post by bruce bowser
Do you find either spelling particularly wrong or correct?
No. They're different dialects.
I do find it particularly irritating when a retail business uses a
nonstandard-for-the-local-dialect spelling for pretentiousness -- a
couple of decades ago there was a veritable plague of shopping malls
calling themselves "Something-or-other Centre" because that's the
British spelling and everyone knows the Brits are classier. The only
recent example I can think of is the sports apparel comany Under
Armour, which I've read the story about.
What about "theatre"? Almost all the institutions, professional
organizations etc. use that spelling in their names.
Yes, sad to say, some Americans distinguish--you see movies, which come
from Hollywood, in a theatre; you see plays, which come from
Stratford-upon-Avon or Broadway (which is only an ocean away from
England) in a theatre.
Post by Quinn C
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_theater_in_the_United_States>
| The term regional theatre most often refers to a professional theatre
| outside New York City.
Whoa! Really? Chicago or LA as reginoal as Poughkeepsie in this case?
Sounds familiar. New York is the only place in the U.S. where live
theater is not in a region.
--
Jerry Friedman
Jerry Friedman
2021-03-23 20:48:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tuesday, March 23, 2021 at 11:57:37 AM UTC-6, Jerry Friedman wrote:

[pretentious transpondian spellings]
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Quinn C
What about "theatre"? Almost all the institutions, professional
organizations etc. use that spelling in their names.
Yes, sad to say, some Americans distinguish--you see movies, which come
from Hollywood, in a theatre; you see plays, which come from
Stratford-upon-Avon or Broadway (which is only an ocean away from
England) in a theatre.
...

No, no, no. You see movies in a theater; you see plays in a theatre.

Of course, not all Americans use those spellings that way.
--
Jerry Friedman
Garrett Wollman
2021-03-23 21:20:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
| The term regional theatre most often refers to a professional theatre
| outside New York City.
Whoa! Really? Chicago or LA as reginoal as Poughkeepsie in this case?
Yep. New York so dominates theatrical employment that one of its
streets is practically synonymous with the industry -- "Broadway".
The only city in the US that even comes close is Las Vegas. Compare
"Wall Street", "Sand Hill Road" (venture capital), "the Strip"
(casinos), "Bourbon Street" (Mardi Gras), etc.

In terms of full-time theaters, most large cities have a few, owned or
managed by large national promoters like Live Nation, that serve both
national touring shows (primarily musicals) and concert tours, in
addition to a few non-profit theaters that put on their own
productions of "serious" plays nobody wants to see. Only in New York
are there enough venues, audiences, and talent that "serious" plays
can be done on a for-profit basis.

-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | "Act to avoid constraining the future; if you can,
***@bimajority.org| act to remove constraint from the future. This is
Opinions not shared by| a thing you can do, are able to do, to do together."
my employers. | - Graydon Saunders, _A Succession of Bad Days_ (2015)
bruce bowser
2021-03-23 21:36:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
| The term regional theatre most often refers to a professional theatre
| outside New York City.
Whoa! Really? Chicago or LA as reginoal as Poughkeepsie in this case?
Yep. New York so dominates theatrical employment that one of its
streets is practically synonymous with the industry -- "Broadway".
The only city in the US that even comes close is Las Vegas. Compare
"Wall Street", "Sand Hill Road" (venture capital), "the Strip"
(casinos), "Bourbon Street" (Mardi Gras), etc.
In terms of full-time theaters, most large cities have a few, owned or
managed by large national promoters like Live Nation, that serve both
national touring shows (primarily musicals) and concert tours, in
addition to a few non-profit theaters that put on their own
productions of "serious" plays nobody wants to see. Only in New York
are there enough venues, audiences, and talent that "serious" plays
can be done on a for-profit basis.
-GAWollman
Well yes, Paris, London and NY are where plays do the best financially.
Peter Moylan
2021-03-24 01:03:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
| The term regional theatre most often refers to a professional theatre
| outside New York City.
Whoa! Really? Chicago or LA as reginoal as Poughkeepsie in this case?
This is a source of great annoyance to people in Newcastle. When the
state government announces regional spending, it turns out that
Newcastle is not regional. When it's for cities, Newcastle is not a
city. Either way, we miss out.

We all know that the real reason is that this region never votes for the
Liberals, therefore we're not on the pork barrel list.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Chrysi Cat
2021-03-24 01:14:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Quinn C
| The term regional theatre most often refers to a professional theatre
| outside New York City.
Whoa! Really? Chicago or LA as reginoal as Poughkeepsie in this case?
This is a source of great annoyance to people in Newcastle. When the
state government announces regional spending, it turns out that
Newcastle is not regional. When it's for cities, Newcastle is not a
city. Either way, we miss out.
We all know that the real reason is that this region never votes for the
Liberals, therefore we're not on the pork barrel list.
And what happens if Labor ever takes over NSW?

Oh, right, that's likely as possible as Wyoming electing Democrats.
--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger. [she/her. Misgender and die].
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!
Peter Moylan
2021-03-24 01:46:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by Peter Moylan
By the way: | The term regional theatre most often refers to a
professional theatre | outside New York City.
Whoa! Really? Chicago or LA as reginoal as Poughkeepsie in this case?
This is a source of great annoyance to people in Newcastle. When
the state government announces regional spending, it turns out
that Newcastle is not regional. When it's for cities, Newcastle is
not a city. Either way, we miss out.
We all know that the real reason is that this region never votes
for the Liberals, therefore we're not on the pork barrel list.
And what happens if Labor ever takes over NSW?
Oh, right, that's likely as possible as Wyoming electing Democrats.
Oh, it's possible. The present state government stinks to high heaven,
and might well be thrown out at the next election because of the
cumulative effect of corruption scandals.

The custom in this state is that the incumbent party loses office once
the corruption level is too high to ignore, so we do have a steady
alternation.

Labor governments have been no better, historically, but they don't have
quite the same pork-barreling history. They're corrupt in different ways.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Mark Brader
2021-03-24 04:21:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
This is a source of great annoyance to people in Newcastle. When the
state government announces regional spending, it turns out that
Newcastle is not regional. When it's for cities, Newcastle is not a
city.
This reminds me of the Metropolitan Railway. When the British government
forced the countriy's 120+ railways to merge into four, they were excused
on the grounds that they only operated in the London area. Then 12 years
later the British government forced the control of London's underground
railways to be turned over to an appointed board -- and the Metropolitan
demanded to be excused on the grounds that they were a main-line railway.

They lost that one, though.
--
Mark Brader | Well, unfortunately, that is impossible, or very difficult, or
Toronto | highly inadvisable, or would require legislation--one of those.
***@vex.net | -- Sir Humphrey ("Yes Minister", Lynn & Jay)

My text in this article is in the public domain.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-03-24 08:13:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Quinn C
| The term regional theatre most often refers to a professional theatre
| outside New York City.
Whoa! Really? Chicago or LA as reginoal as Poughkeepsie in this case?
This is a source of great annoyance to people in Newcastle. When the
state government announces regional spending, it turns out that
Newcastle is not regional. When it's for cities, Newcastle is not a
city. Either way, we miss out.
Something the UK Post Office used to complain about is that when people
wanted to address a letter to Newcastle-upon-Tyne they wrote
"Newcastle-upon-Tyne" on the envelope. So far so good. But when people
wanted to send one to Newcastle-under-Lyme (a much less well known
place) they just wrote "Newcastle" and expected the Post Office to
guess which one they meant.

I suppose occasionally they had ones where Newcastle, NSW, was
intended. At least twice when I lived in Birmingham I received letters
from the USA that had been rerouted via Indianapolis. Why? you may ask.
Because my postcode was B31 1ND. I once had one that had "Missent to
Wake" rubber-stamped on it: I never figured out why such a weird error
might be made. Maybe it got attached to one that really was going to
Wake Island.
Post by Peter Moylan
We all know that the real reason is that this region never votes for the
Liberals, therefore we're not on the pork barrel list.
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
Peter T. Daniels
2021-03-24 14:29:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Something the UK Post Office used to complain about is that when people
"Newcastle-upon-Tyne" on the envelope. So far so good. But when people
wanted to send one to Newcastle-under-Lyme (a much less well known
place) they just wrote "Newcastle" and expected the Post Office to
guess which one they meant.
I suppose occasionally they had ones where Newcastle, NSW, was
intended. At least twice when I lived in Birmingham I received letters
from the USA that had been rerouted via Indianapolis. Why? you may ask.
Because my postcode was B31 1ND. I once had one that had "Missent to
Wake" rubber-stamped on it: I never figured out why such a weird error
might be made. Maybe it got attached to one that really was going to
Wake Island.
Wake Island's ZIP Code is 96898. It's in Honolulu County, HI.
s***@my-deja.com
2021-03-24 16:04:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Something the UK Post Office used to complain about is that when people
"Newcastle-upon-Tyne" on the envelope. So far so good. But when people
wanted to send one to Newcastle-under-Lyme (a much less well known
place) they just wrote "Newcastle" and expected the Post Office to
guess which one they meant.
I suppose occasionally they had ones where Newcastle, NSW, was
intended. At least twice when I lived in Birmingham I received letters
from the USA that had been rerouted via Indianapolis. Why? you may ask.
Because my postcode was B31 1ND. I once had one that had "Missent to
Wake" rubber-stamped on it: I never figured out why such a weird error
might be made. Maybe it got attached to one that really was going to
Wake Island.
Within the UK all you need is the house/building number and the postcode.
This eliminates the "which Newcastle/which Newport" problem completely.
Other potentially misleading names can just be omitted.

Of course when sending from another country it is wise to include
the nation of destination, in both languages if appropriate.
Tony Cooper
2021-03-24 16:21:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Something the UK Post Office used to complain about is that when people
"Newcastle-upon-Tyne" on the envelope. So far so good. But when people
wanted to send one to Newcastle-under-Lyme (a much less well known
place) they just wrote "Newcastle" and expected the Post Office to
guess which one they meant.
I suppose occasionally they had ones where Newcastle, NSW, was
intended. At least twice when I lived in Birmingham I received letters
from the USA that had been rerouted via Indianapolis. Why? you may ask.
Because my postcode was B31 1ND. I once had one that had "Missent to
Wake" rubber-stamped on it: I never figured out why such a weird error
might be made. Maybe it got attached to one that really was going to
Wake Island.
Within the UK all you need is the house/building number and the postcode.
This eliminates the "which Newcastle/which Newport" problem completely.
Other potentially misleading names can just be omitted.
Of course when sending from another country it is wise to include
the nation of destination, in both languages if appropriate.
Theoretically, I can address an envelope using only the person's name
and the ZIP plus four to a US postal patron. The "plus four" is the
street address. I've never tried it, though.
--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-03-24 18:08:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Something the UK Post Office used to complain about is that when people
"Newcastle-upon-Tyne" on the envelope. So far so good. But when people
wanted to send one to Newcastle-under-Lyme (a much less well known
place) they just wrote "Newcastle" and expected the Post Office to
guess which one they meant.
I suppose occasionally they had ones where Newcastle, NSW, was
intended. At least twice when I lived in Birmingham I received letters
from the USA that had been rerouted via Indianapolis. Why? you may ask.
Because my postcode was B31 1ND. I once had one that had "Missent to
Wake" rubber-stamped on it: I never figured out why such a weird error
might be made. Maybe it got attached to one that really was going to
Wake Island.
Within the UK all you need is the house/building number and the postcode.
This eliminates the "which Newcastle/which Newport" problem completely.
Other potentially misleading names can just be omitted.
Of course when sending from another country it is wise to include
the nation of destination, in both languages if appropriate.
Theoretically, I can address an envelope using only the person's name
and the ZIP plus four to a US postal patron. The "plus four" is the
street address. I've never tried it, though.
Back in the 1930s there was said to be a letter addressed to "(Person's
name), Arijaba", which was delivered without delay to the right person
near the harbour in Harwich. I think Ernest Gowers mentioned it in his
book Plain Words.
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
musika
2021-03-24 18:48:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Something the UK Post Office used to complain about is that when people
"Newcastle-upon-Tyne" on the envelope. So far so good. But when people
wanted to send one to Newcastle-under-Lyme (a much less well known
place) they just wrote "Newcastle" and expected the Post Office to
guess which one they meant.
I suppose occasionally they had ones where Newcastle, NSW, was
intended. At least twice when I lived in Birmingham I received letters
from the USA that had been rerouted via Indianapolis. Why? you may ask.
Because my postcode was B31 1ND. I once had one that had "Missent to
Wake" rubber-stamped on it: I never figured out why such a weird error
might be made. Maybe it got attached to one that really was going to
Wake Island.
Within the UK all you need is the house/building number and the postcode.
This eliminates the "which Newcastle/which Newport" problem completely.
Other potentially misleading names can just be  omitted.
Of course when sending from another country it is wise to include
the nation of destination, in both languages if appropriate.
Theoretically, I can address an envelope using only the person's name
and the ZIP plus four to a US postal patron.  The "plus four" is the
street address.  I've never tried it, though.
Back in the 1930s there was said to be a letter addressed to "(Person's
name), Arijaba", which was delivered without delay to the right person
near the harbour in Harwich. I think Ernest Gowers mentioned it in his
book Plain Words.
<https://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/news/11485.its-not-what-you-say-it-is-the-way-you-say-it/>
--
Ray
UK
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-03-24 19:23:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by musika
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Something the UK Post Office used to complain about is that when people
"Newcastle-upon-Tyne" on the envelope. So far so good. But when people
wanted to send one to Newcastle-under-Lyme (a much less well known
place) they just wrote "Newcastle" and expected the Post Office to
guess which one they meant.
I suppose occasionally they had ones where Newcastle, NSW, was
intended. At least twice when I lived in Birmingham I received letters
from the USA that had been rerouted via Indianapolis. Why? you may ask.
Because my postcode was B31 1ND. I once had one that had "Missent to
Wake" rubber-stamped on it: I never figured out why such a weird error
might be made. Maybe it got attached to one that really was going to
Wake Island.
Within the UK all you need is the house/building number and the postcode.
This eliminates the "which Newcastle/which Newport" problem completely.
Other potentially misleading names can just be  omitted.
Of course when sending from another country it is wise to include
the nation of destination, in both languages if appropriate.
Theoretically, I can address an envelope using only the person's name
and the ZIP plus four to a US postal patron.  The "plus four" is the
street address.  I've never tried it, though.
Back in the 1930s there was said to be a letter addressed to "(Person's
name), Arijaba", which was delivered without delay to the right person
near the harbour in Harwich. I think Ernest Gowers mentioned it in his
book Plain Words.
<https://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/news/11485.its-not-what-you-say-it-is-the-way-you-say-it/>
Good find! I don't often (or ever, usually) read the Bucks Free Press.
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
Madhu
2021-03-25 06:43:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by musika
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Back in the 1930s there was said to be a letter addressed to
"(Person's name), Arijaba", which was delivered without delay to the
right person near the harbour in Harwich. I think Ernest Gowers
mentioned it in his book Plain Words.
<https://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/news/11485.its-not-what-you-say-it-is-the-way-you-say-it/>
Good find! I don't often (or ever, usually) read the Bucks Free Press.
fortune tells a story where US mail tops that

%
Two men once wrote to Mark Twain. Not having his
address, they marked the envelope,

Mark Twain
God knows where

They received a response from him: "He did."
%
Bill Day
2021-03-25 14:23:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 20:23:22 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by musika
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Something the UK Post Office used to complain about is that when people
"Newcastle-upon-Tyne" on the envelope. So far so good. But when people
wanted to send one to Newcastle-under-Lyme (a much less well known
place) they just wrote "Newcastle" and expected the Post Office to
guess which one they meant.
I suppose occasionally they had ones where Newcastle, NSW, was
intended. At least twice when I lived in Birmingham I received letters
from the USA that had been rerouted via Indianapolis. Why? you may ask.
Because my postcode was B31 1ND. I once had one that had "Missent to
Wake" rubber-stamped on it: I never figured out why such a weird error
might be made. Maybe it got attached to one that really was going to
Wake Island.
Within the UK all you need is the house/building number and the postcode.
This eliminates the "which Newcastle/which Newport" problem completely.
Other potentially misleading names can just be  omitted.
Of course when sending from another country it is wise to include
the nation of destination, in both languages if appropriate.
Theoretically, I can address an envelope using only the person's name
and the ZIP plus four to a US postal patron.  The "plus four" is the
street address.  I've never tried it, though.
Back in the 1930s there was said to be a letter addressed to "(Person's
name), Arijaba", which was delivered without delay to the right person
near the harbour in Harwich. I think Ernest Gowers mentioned it in his
book Plain Words.
<https://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/news/11485.its-not-what-you-say-it-is-the-way-you-say-it/>
Good find! I don't often (or ever, usually) read the Bucks Free Press.
Very nice article... except that they got the Earl of "Morray" wrong.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_of_Moray
--
remove nonsense for reply
Sam Plusnet
2021-03-25 20:11:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bill Day
On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 20:23:22 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by musika
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Something the UK Post Office used to complain about is that when people
"Newcastle-upon-Tyne" on the envelope. So far so good. But when people
wanted to send one to Newcastle-under-Lyme (a much less well known
place) they just wrote "Newcastle" and expected the Post Office to
guess which one they meant.
I suppose occasionally they had ones where Newcastle, NSW, was
intended. At least twice when I lived in Birmingham I received letters
from the USA that had been rerouted via Indianapolis. Why? you may ask.
Because my postcode was B31 1ND. I once had one that had "Missent to
Wake" rubber-stamped on it: I never figured out why such a weird error
might be made. Maybe it got attached to one that really was going to
Wake Island.
Within the UK all you need is the house/building number and the postcode.
This eliminates the "which Newcastle/which Newport" problem completely.
Other potentially misleading names can just be  omitted.
Of course when sending from another country it is wise to include
the nation of destination, in both languages if appropriate.
Theoretically, I can address an envelope using only the person's name
and the ZIP plus four to a US postal patron.  The "plus four" is the
street address.  I've never tried it, though.
Back in the 1930s there was said to be a letter addressed to "(Person's
name), Arijaba", which was delivered without delay to the right person
near the harbour in Harwich. I think Ernest Gowers mentioned it in his
book Plain Words.
<https://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/news/11485.its-not-what-you-say-it-is-the-way-you-say-it/>
Good find! I don't often (or ever, usually) read the Bucks Free Press.
Very nice article... except that they got the Earl of "Morray" wrong.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_of_Moray
Eel be upset about that.
--
Sam Plusnet
Wales, UK
musika
2021-03-25 21:33:38 UTC
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Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Bill Day
On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 20:23:22 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by musika
On 2021-03-24 16:21:21 +0000, Tony Cooper said: Back in the
1930s there was said to be a letter addressed to "(Person's
name), Arijaba", which was delivered without delay to the
right person near the harbour in Harwich. I think Ernest
Gowers mentioned it in his book Plain Words.
<https://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/news/11485.its-not-what-you-say-it-is-the-way-you-say-it/>
Good find! I don't often (or ever, usually) read the Bucks Free Press.
Very nice article... except that they got the Earl of "Morray"
wrong. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_of_Moray
Eel be upset about that.
Moray mints, Moray mints
Too good to horay mints.
--
Ray
UK
Kerr-Mudd,John
2021-03-26 09:15:49 UTC
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Post by musika
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Bill Day
On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 20:23:22 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by musika
On 2021-03-24 16:21:21 +0000, Tony Cooper said: Back in the
1930s there was said to be a letter addressed to "(Person's
name), Arijaba", which was delivered without delay to the
right person near the harbour in Harwich. I think Ernest
Gowers mentioned it in his book Plain Words.
<https://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/news/11485.its-not-what-you-say-i
t-is-the-way-you-say-it/>
Good find! I don't often (or ever, usually) read the Bucks Free Press.
Very nice article... except that they got the Earl of "Morray"
wrong. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_of_Moray
Eel be upset about that.
Moray mints, Moray mints
Too good to horay mints.
The ever excitable Murray Walker <vroom!> is no more.
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Peter T. Daniels
2021-03-24 20:53:07 UTC
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Post by Tony Cooper
Theoretically, I can address an envelope using only the person's name
and the ZIP plus four to a US postal patron. The "plus four" is the
street address. I've never tried it, though.
Large apartment houses can have more than one ZIP+four (but only
one street address), just as they can have more than one Election
District (Chicago: precinct), depending on the number of units and
the number of voters respectively.
Lewis
2021-03-25 01:31:29 UTC
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Post by Tony Cooper
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Something the UK Post Office used to complain about is that when people
"Newcastle-upon-Tyne" on the envelope. So far so good. But when people
wanted to send one to Newcastle-under-Lyme (a much less well known
place) they just wrote "Newcastle" and expected the Post Office to
guess which one they meant.
I suppose occasionally they had ones where Newcastle, NSW, was
intended. At least twice when I lived in Birmingham I received letters
from the USA that had been rerouted via Indianapolis. Why? you may ask.
Because my postcode was B31 1ND. I once had one that had "Missent to
Wake" rubber-stamped on it: I never figured out why such a weird error
might be made. Maybe it got attached to one that really was going to
Wake Island.
Within the UK all you need is the house/building number and the postcode.
This eliminates the "which Newcastle/which Newport" problem completely.
Other potentially misleading names can just be omitted.
Of course when sending from another country it is wise to include
the nation of destination, in both languages if appropriate.
Theoretically, I can address an envelope using only the person's name
and the ZIP plus four to a US postal patron. The "plus four" is the
street address. I've never tried it, though.
That may be true for address in your area, but it is not generally true.
In dense population areas a zip+4 may identify a group of houses, an
apartment building, or maybe even an entire block,

PO Boxes are usually assigned a unique zip+4 where the zip code is the PO
Box zip and the +4 is the PO Box number, but I believe even there there
are exceptions.
--
So, the apocalypse is happening and whatever and this little piggy comes all
this way, but you won’t accept my help because I’m a woman?
Pig: Quite right.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-03-24 18:04:24 UTC
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Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Something the UK Post Office used to complain about is that when people
"Newcastle-upon-Tyne" on the envelope. So far so good. But when people
wanted to send one to Newcastle-under-Lyme (a much less well known
place) they just wrote "Newcastle" and expected the Post Office to
guess which one they meant.
I suppose occasionally they had ones where Newcastle, NSW, was
intended. At least twice when I lived in Birmingham I received letters
from the USA that had been rerouted via Indianapolis. Why? you may ask.
Because my postcode was B31 1ND. I once had one that had "Missent to
Wake" rubber-stamped on it: I never figured out why such a weird error
might be made. Maybe it got attached to one that really was going to
Wake Island.
Within the UK all you need is the house/building number and the postcode.
This eliminates the "which Newcastle/which Newport" problem completely.
Other potentially misleading names can just be omitted.
Of course when sending from another country it is wise to include
the nation of destination, in both languages if appropriate.
It was a long time ago, but I'm pretty sure that the letters that came
via Indianapolis had "England" on the envelope, but the sorter (or
sorting machine) overlooked it.
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
Tony Cooper
2021-03-24 18:49:38 UTC
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On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 19:04:24 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Something the UK Post Office used to complain about is that when people
"Newcastle-upon-Tyne" on the envelope. So far so good. But when people
wanted to send one to Newcastle-under-Lyme (a much less well known
place) they just wrote "Newcastle" and expected the Post Office to
guess which one they meant.
I suppose occasionally they had ones where Newcastle, NSW, was
intended. At least twice when I lived in Birmingham I received letters
from the USA that had been rerouted via Indianapolis. Why? you may ask.
Because my postcode was B31 1ND. I once had one that had "Missent to
Wake" rubber-stamped on it: I never figured out why such a weird error
might be made. Maybe it got attached to one that really was going to
Wake Island.
Within the UK all you need is the house/building number and the postcode.
This eliminates the "which Newcastle/which Newport" problem completely.
Other potentially misleading names can just be omitted.
Of course when sending from another country it is wise to include
the nation of destination, in both languages if appropriate.
It was a long time ago, but I'm pretty sure that the letters that came
via Indianapolis had "England" on the envelope, but the sorter (or
sorting machine) overlooked it.
There is both an English, Indiana and a London, Indiana in the state.
There is also a Bank of England located in Valparaiso, Indiana.

There is also a New Castle, Indiana and a Birmingham, Indiana.
--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida
Graham
2021-03-24 19:20:09 UTC
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Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 19:04:24 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Something the UK Post Office used to complain about is that when people
"Newcastle-upon-Tyne" on the envelope. So far so good. But when people
wanted to send one to Newcastle-under-Lyme (a much less well known
place) they just wrote "Newcastle" and expected the Post Office to
guess which one they meant.
I suppose occasionally they had ones where Newcastle, NSW, was
intended. At least twice when I lived in Birmingham I received letters
from the USA that had been rerouted via Indianapolis. Why? you may ask.
Because my postcode was B31 1ND. I once had one that had "Missent to
Wake" rubber-stamped on it: I never figured out why such a weird error
might be made. Maybe it got attached to one that really was going to
Wake Island.
Within the UK all you need is the house/building number and the postcode.
This eliminates the "which Newcastle/which Newport" problem completely.
Other potentially misleading names can just be omitted.
Of course when sending from another country it is wise to include
the nation of destination, in both languages if appropriate.
It was a long time ago, but I'm pretty sure that the letters that came
via Indianapolis had "England" on the envelope, but the sorter (or
sorting machine) overlooked it.
There is both an English, Indiana and a London, Indiana in the state.
There is also a Bank of England located in Valparaiso, Indiana.
There is also a New Castle, Indiana and a Birmingham, Indiana.
And numerous East Anglian place-names in New England.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-03-24 19:25:25 UTC
Reply
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Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 19:04:24 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Something the UK Post Office used to complain about is that when people
"Newcastle-upon-Tyne" on the envelope. So far so good. But when people
wanted to send one to Newcastle-under-Lyme (a much less well known
place) they just wrote "Newcastle" and expected the Post Office to
guess which one they meant.
I suppose occasionally they had ones where Newcastle, NSW, was
intended. At least twice when I lived in Birmingham I received letters
from the USA that had been rerouted via Indianapolis. Why? you may ask.
Because my postcode was B31 1ND. I once had one that had "Missent to
Wake" rubber-stamped on it: I never figured out why such a weird error
might be made. Maybe it got attached to one that really was going to
Wake Island.
Within the UK all you need is the house/building number and the postcode.
This eliminates the "which Newcastle/which Newport" problem completely.
Other potentially misleading names can just be omitted.
Of course when sending from another country it is wise to include
the nation of destination, in both languages if appropriate.
It was a long time ago, but I'm pretty sure that the letters that came
via Indianapolis had "England" on the envelope, but the sorter (or
sorting machine) overlooked it.
There is both an English, Indiana and a London, Indiana in the state.
There is also a Bank of England located in Valparaiso, Indiana.
There is also a New Castle, Indiana and a Birmingham, Indiana.
So, in PTD's charming expression, they ripped off these names from
their originators?
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
Peter T. Daniels
2021-03-24 20:56:25 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Tony Cooper
There is both an English, Indiana and a London, Indiana in the state.
There is also a Bank of England located in Valparaiso, Indiana.
There is also a New Castle, Indiana and a Birmingham, Indiana.
So, in PTD's charming expression, they ripped off these names from
their originators?
Sorry, how do you "rip off" a name? Usually, they were fondly remembering
their places of origin. Sometimes they were flattering a patron.
Lewis
2021-03-23 17:51:46 UTC
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Post by Garrett Wollman
Post by bruce bowser
Do you find either spelling particularly wrong or correct?
No. They're different dialects.
I do find it particularly irritating when a retail business uses a
nonstandard-for-the-local-dialect spelling for pretentiousness -- a
couple of decades ago there was a veritable plague of shopping malls
calling themselves "Something-or-other Centre" because that's the
British spelling and everyone knows the Brits are classier. The only
recent example I can think of is the sports apparel comany Under
Armour, which I've read the story about.
Centre is very common in the US, and has been for a very long time.
Somce about 1950 it's been about 10% of the use of center, and before
that it was more common.

The trend you think of as new is older than you are, I think. And, of
course, "center" is quite modern, being barely 200 years old.

A quick look at Google found a Boston Directory from 1870 "thence by the
centre of the avenue leading from Warren bridge to Causeway" which is
talking about the US City of Boston. Finding example from the 19th
century and the early 20th century in the US is not difficult (center
didn't pass centre in the US corpus until about 1890).

Theatre, as well, though theater didn't pass theatre in the US corpus
until the 1970s.
--
In the 60's, people took acid to make the world appear weird. Now the
world is weird and people take Prozac to make it appear normal.
musika
2021-03-23 19:35:11 UTC
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Post by Lewis
Post by Garrett Wollman
Post by bruce bowser
Do you find either spelling particularly wrong or correct?
No. They're different dialects.
I do find it particularly irritating when a retail business uses a
nonstandard-for-the-local-dialect spelling for pretentiousness -- a
couple of decades ago there was a veritable plague of shopping malls
calling themselves "Something-or-other Centre" because that's the
British spelling and everyone knows the Brits are classier. The only
recent example I can think of is the sports apparel comany Under
Armour, which I've read the story about.
Centre is very common in the US, and has been for a very long time.
Somce about 1950 it's been about 10% of the use of center, and before
that it was more common.
The trend you think of as new is older than you are, I think. And, of
course, "center" is quite modern, being barely 200 years old.
h
Center has been around a lot longer than the USA has. Shakespeare and
Milton bear witness.
Centre only took over in Britland after Johnson used that spelling in
his dictionary.
--
Ray
UK
Peter Moylan
2021-03-24 01:06:57 UTC
Reply
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Post by musika
Post by Lewis
The trend you think of as new is older than you are, I think. And, of
course, "center" is quite modern, being barely 200 years old.
Center has been around a lot longer than the USA has. Shakespeare and
Milton bear witness.
Centre only took over in Britland after Johnson used that spelling in
his dictionary.
If we were serious about phonetic spelling (all dialects) we would spell
it "centr".
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
musika
2021-03-24 02:18:42 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
Post by musika
Post by Lewis
The trend you think of as new is older than you are, I think. And, of
course, "center" is quite modern, being barely 200 years old.
Center has been around a lot longer than the USA has. Shakespeare and
Milton bear witness.
Centre only took over in Britland after Johnson used that spelling in
his dictionary.
If we were serious about phonetic spelling (all dialects) we would spell
it "centr".
It would be easier to go back to centrum.
--
Ray
UK
Mark Brader
2021-03-24 04:22:18 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
If we were serious about phonetic spelling (all dialects) we would spell
it "centr".
I think you mean "sentr".
--
Mark Brader | "...very satisfying -- it's like the erosion geology edition
Toronto | of the electromagnetic spectrum chart."
***@vex.net | --Randall Munroe
Peter Moylan
2021-03-24 04:35:49 UTC
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Post by Mark Brader
Post by Peter Moylan
If we were serious about phonetic spelling (all dialects) we would spell
it "centr".
I think you mean "sentr".
Conceded.

We'll probably never go back to the Latin pronunciation with a [k].
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Peter Moylan
2021-03-24 01:03:48 UTC
Reply
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Post by Garrett Wollman
Post by bruce bowser
Do you find either spelling particularly wrong or correct?
No. They're different dialects.
I do find it particularly irritating when a retail business uses a
nonstandard-for-the-local-dialect spelling for pretentiousness -- a
couple of decades ago there was a veritable plague of shopping malls
calling themselves "Something-or-other Centre" because that's the
British spelling and everyone knows the Brits are classier. The only
recent example I can think of is the sports apparel comany Under
Armour, which I've read the story about.
I thought we all agreed on the spelling of "amour".
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Jerry Friedman
2021-03-24 01:28:46 UTC
Reply
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Post by Peter Moylan
Post by bruce bowser
Do you find either spelling particularly wrong or correct?
No. They're different dialects.
I do find it particularly irritating when a retail business uses a
nonstandard-for-the-local-dialect spelling for pretentiousness -- a
couple of decades ago there was a veritable plague of shopping malls
calling themselves "Something-or-other Centre" because that's the
British spelling and everyone knows the Brits are classier. The only
recent example I can think of is the sports apparel comany Under
Armour, which I've read the story about.
I thought we all agreed on the spelling of "amour".
We do when it's a brand of clothing for Our Under Arm, but the shining
stuff knights wear is "armor" over/up/down here.
--
Jerry Friedman
Dingbat
2021-03-25 19:47:18 UTC
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Post by bruce bowser
Do you find either spelling particularly wrong or correct? If so, do you have any preferences?
Neither gets my CHOLER up:-)

How about MOLD vs MOULD?
I've used only the 1st spelling for the fungus/mildew like mold but have used both for a hollow container/ template to give shape to a liquid freezing into a solid.
Oddly, I've used only MOLD for "in the mold of his father" even though this usage derives from the latter meaning.
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